Hash questions re: potency and adulterants

[RobertD]

I've got a trip to Amsterdam coming up but I'm no cannabis connoisseur, so I thought I'd try pick some brains on here.

Is the difference between the variously priced Moroccan hashes (polm, super polm, KH, etc) mainly one of quality or potency? By quality I mean things like taste and the presence/lack of adulterants. If you wanted a fairly low potency but decent quality hash, would it be a safe bet to go for a basic Moroccan polm from a reputable CS? Also, are adulterants (like henna) common or uncommon in hashes from reputable coffeeshops in Amsterdam?

Finally - and I know this will vary year to year, batch to batch - is there usually a general potency scale based on nation (Moroccan, Afghan, Indian, Leb, Nep, etc)? If I can't handle very high potency, are there any national hashes that I should avoid (excluding the Dutch stuff, which I can't afford in any case)?

Amateur questions, but any help/info much appreciated!

[macky]

King Husain from Dampking 2 for 6euro,s ,good reviews even from hash heads on this forum

[Fat_old_dwarf]

When it comes to Moroccan hash, I've always believed that most shops flip coins to decide whether to call a strain KH, gardella, warme oortjes or whatever.

Moroccan can be anything from brilliant to mildly depressing. Border Afghan is pretty much crap, expensive Afghan too rare to generalise about. Indian should be good, often isn't. Stoners of a certain age rave about Lebanese, probably out of nostalgia; I found it too weak then and too weak now, but if you're looking for something mild, you might like it. Good Nepalese should be strong and is often expensive, but rarely lives up to the premium price.

There are shops that have had sprayed weed, which should be avoided on principle. And I've had the odd bit of hash that I didn't trust. But there are undoubtedly more, and subtler, adulterants than henna, so one can never be sure.

If you're on a budget, I'd recommend Tweede Kamer/Dampkring2's King Hassan at €6 a g, as Macky said. Katsu do a Moroccan special – 4g for €20 – that varies in quality. The first time I bought it it was good value, the second time not so much, but if you're after a mild Moroccan, it might be just the thing. Coffeeshop DNA have a special on White Choco Block at €6 – if it's what the other Boerejongens shops sell for €8.50 it's a steal (but it might not be, just as the €8.50 AK Choco Block from Johnny's isn't the €9 from Boerejongens.

[CopenhagenCouple]

F.O.D. has some very good points regarding origins versus potency etc., would say more or less the same.

We have somewhat of a problem, though, with this whole potency discussion, actually several problems. One is the fact that when discussing potency we can either discuss some absolute measure, e.g. % content of given cannabinoids or mg thc per €, perceived value relative to some other specific buy or the market in general or even potency wrt some specific sought after effect (the "I wanna be happy, energized and creative from three to five, then have 45 minutes of the munchies and thee relax for an hour, what is the best strain" newbie question we seem to get a lot). Given that we don't have reliable data to be specific about potency from a purely "numbers perspective" (and our collective understanding of synergistic effects of cannabinoids and terps isn't probably complete enough for the discussion to be very relevant) we will have to opt for a more anecdotal approach.

This, however, introduces the complex problems of individual tolerance levels and even more complex the different individual responses to some cocktail of cannabinoids, levels of prior rest and nourishment etc etc that undoubtedly will affect how the "potency" of some product is perceived.


For a seasoned smoker / consumer these issues will be more nuanced and they will in general be easier to guide as you can be more specific and ask questions to clarify before offering advice, but for less experienced consumers the distinct individuality of not only the consumer but also the complex products being consumed comes very much into play... Sometimes this is so much the case that there issues take precedence over absolute potency, e.g. for those who get completely mashed and unable to function from indicas, but can smoke sativas all day...

[OneHighMofo]

OHMF's quick capsule two penneth on potency:

There is no easy price Vs potency standard or scale. It's an impossibility for a variety of reasons.
However: Cannabis is a very easy substance to titrate effectively.

Buy a small hash pipe (ideally a bubbler for the smoothest experience - but it's not essential) and start with small doses. Do not mix it with Tobacco. Be patient. Load a tiny amount (Half a pea sized ball) and take a single 5 second toke. Wait twenty minutes, have a coffee and a chat - see how you feel. There's only one way to understand your tolerance...

If you're particularly interested in the varying effects of differing hashish cannabinoid and terpene profiles; go to a Coffeshop like Tweede Kamer or Dampkring (Spui) that has a good selection of produce from a wide variety of regions and ask for something with an uplifting 'mind' high and something with a relaxant 'body' high.

[RobertD]

Thanks everyone - some good pointers there to take into consideration. What FOD said about coin flipping is what I'd suspected as well. I might try a few Moroccans from the same CS and report back if I have anything interesting to say.

Siberie posted the photo below on their facebook recently, so I assume this red lebanon is on their menu now. Has anyone come across it? If those results are broadly accurate, seems like something I'd like (based on the CBD and THC info; I can't read Dutch).

[OneHighMofo]

My brother bought their Red Leb last June. We weren't very impressed to be honest but then we were looking for high THC content.
It's not very strong - that the sample they tested has an almost 1 to 1 THC to CDB ratio is interesting.

[aVeryOldLady]

Siberie posted the photo below on their facebook recently, so I assume this red lebanon is on their menu now. Has anyone come across it? If those results are broadly accurate, seems like something I'd like (based on the CBD and THC info; I can't read Dutch).

As Dutch is quite similar to German, I will try a translation. Corrections are welcome

The picture says:

Potent indica dominant hybrid. THC and CBD are both present and are supposed to determine the effects. (Whatever the second sentence means?) From a pharmacological view, CBD is the 'antagonist' of THC. Thus, all psychoactive effects by the THC are weakened and the head high is reduced; therefore it is felt in the body.
Small doses will deliver an activating head buzz, whereas medium and large doses will induce a deactivating and calming body buzz.
A-Class CBD-Hash.

[Freshouttheoven]

You dit a nice job on the translating aVeryOldLady!

The Red Libanon hash is made of a hybride cannabis plant which is indica dominant. CBD and THC are both dominant present and have there influence on the outcome (depends in which dosage you smoke it). From a pharmacological view, CBD is the 'antagonist' of THC. Thus, all psychoactive effects by the THC are weakened and the head high is reduced; therefore it is felt more in the body. Small doses will deliver an activating head buzz and medium or large doses will induce a deactivating and calming body buzz.
A-Class CBD-Hash.

It is not common that hash has such a high level of CBD, this kind of hash is usually consumed by medical cannabis users.

It's quite simple, it depends all on the amount of hash that you put in a joint or a hash pipe. Buy a gram of 'cheaper' hash like the King Hassan @2e kamer or Dampkring 2 or Madelaine @Boerejongens and ask the budtender if he can weight 0,1 gram. Remember how big that piece of hash is and smoke that first. Later on you can decide to double or triple te amount of hash if you feel comfortable.

Good luck

[RobertD]

Thanks to both for the translations Saved me from typing the whole dammed thing into google translate

It's quite simple, it depends all on the amount of hash that you put in a joint or a hash pipe. Buy a gram of 'cheaper' hash like the King Hassan @2e kamer or Dampkring 2 or Madelaine @Boerejongens and ask the budtender if he can weight 0,1 gram. Remember how big that piece of hash is and smoke that first. Later on you can decide to double or triple te amount of hash if you feel comfortable.

Good luck

Cheers. The problem is that hash is too tasty and I lack discipline Boerejongens has a very nice-looking hash menu - I'll have to stop by. Thanks for the recommendation.

My brother bought their Red Leb last June. We weren't very impressed to be honest but then we were looking for high THC content.
It's not very strong - that the sample they tested has an almost 1 to 1 THC to CDB ratio is interesting.

Thanks man. Yeah, 'not very strong' pretty much sums up what I'm after - things to smoke throughout the day without zoning out too heavily.

[CopenhagenCouple]

@RobertD: Sorry for hi(gh)jacking your thread and getting all cannageeky and opinionated. To make up for it, here are some concrete recommendations re your questions (you know, before getting back to jacking your thread ):

From your writing you don’t seem like a first timer, you know your way around the basic concepts, know a little about the different hash-producing regions etc. If this is correct I (the Mr.) don’t think you have to be all that concerned w.r.t. potency, as long as you keep a few good tips in mind.

First off, unless you really overdo it, the discomfort of a “too strong buzz” (i.e. “near whitey territory”) is often easily managed with a little sugar, some fluids and maybe some fresh air. Being overly concerned that you might “go to deep” is really a buzz killer and may actually put you in a bit of a nervous state to begin with. Second tip is quite obvious from the above: keep a quick-munch and some fluid handy at all times if you are not keen on surfing the whitey-wave (as some are). Sugar and fluids are the whiteys’ worst enemy. Third tip: experiment with stronger stuff / higher doses on your second day (if you have the chance) or at least later in the day- As long as you keep these tips in mind, you should be good, enjoy the ride dude!

From your last post you state that you are looking for something that will not zone you out too much, so I would recommend not going to heavy on the very high CBD to THC offerings too early in the day. They do tend to leave you a bit foggy, and might even induce a case of ye good ole couch-lock. Hence concrete recommendations for purchases are as follows:
For good value and products quite easy to manage w.r.t. potency the above recommendations are all pretty solid, especially the lower price range Moroccan’s at tweede and Dampkring are usually fair value and not that strong.

Boerejoengens would be one of our absolute top recommendations if you are looking for interesting hash at good value. The Gold Berry Block would probably be a good pick for you, very sweet and tasty hash that is neither too powerful on the THC nor the CBD, good value at 11 € / gram. Even better value, but also harder hitters (believe it or not) are the White Choco and AK x Choco Blocks, but be warned: if you are a light smoker and you take on these puppies at higher doses they will sit you on your ass for a bit as they are both quite heavy on the body stone. AK x Choco (9 € / g IIRC) has the AK come through with a nice slightly fruity sweetness, with the choco giving it a nice background of chocolate and caramel flavors. It is dark and somewhat sticky, very nice hash for the money. The White Choco has distinct chocolate flavors and is surprisingly smooth for a strong smoke. It is much lighter, like a traditional high quality polm and very easy to work with.

Blue bird is well worth a visit and more or less always has good, exotic stuff on offer. Here I recommend the Nepal Temple Balls which is a good example of a classic (and by many highly praised) hash. Classic NTB flavor, maybe not the most powerful but very tasty still. Effects are a nice clear mind high, and mellow body stone, perfect day time smoke for the lighter smoker IMO.

Massawa is very good for classic morrocan (as are El Marssa, Flashback and others we hear), but is quite far out west if you don’t go by bike. Utopia has quite reasonably priced hash, although not as big a selection as some of the above, often some very interesting bits.
For a little later in the day, or maybe into the evening, you should really try on some of the more potent offerings if you are up for it, there are plenty to pick from in the higher ranges from the shops mentioned above, so have fun. Also really recommend that you don’t cheat yourself out of the opportunity to sample some top green, even though you prefer hash!

BBL with a little opinionated cannageeky stuff re: potency and “bad experiences”…

CC

[RobertD]

Mr CC - wow, thanks a lot for that, and feel free to hijack any time with great info like that.

You're right - I'm not new to smoking. I smoked daily and heavily with no real negative mental effects between the ages of about 15 to 18. At some point soon after, it started going downhill and gradually stopped being a positive experience (anxiety, paranoia, extreme introversion, etc). I haven't smoked regularly for about ten years now. When I do smoke, I seem to react a lot more positively to hash than to weed (which is a shame in the UK because the quality cannabis market is overwhelmingly weed-dominated these days). Recently I found out that this could be because hashes tend to be higher in this thing called CBD, which may counteract the negative effects of THC. Hence my ongoing research and annoying questions

I like your idea of going for the milder hashes first and building up from there (in previous visits to Dam, I usually just went for whatever sounded exotic or unavailable in the UK - Nepalese, Charas, etc. - and I don't recall ever asking questions about potency). I'm definitely keen to try the more interesting hashes as well - I've added your recommendations to my list (Blue Bird's Nepal Temple Balls sound good - you've sold it to me well). At some point in between all that, I'll see how I react to a big fat spliff of a slightly milder weed strain like white widow, Jack Herer or northern lights

And yeah, the state of mind point is very true - if you go into a CS with worry and dread, the results aren't likely to be very nice.

Just out of curiosity, do you yourself ever get the common negative side effects from smoking? It's fascinating the range of effects cannabis seems to have on different people.

[OneHighMofo]

Just out of curiosity, do you yourself ever get the common negative side effects from smoking? It's fascinating the range of effects cannabis seems to have on different people.

My turn to jack - a reply to this question

I think most users experiences some negative effects from smoking at some point. Be it lack of motivation or anxiety, whatever.

Cannabis related anxiety sometimes still grabs me by the balls from time to time, but it's always context sensitive; always a combination of setting (is this the right time to be this high? Business meetings are something of a trigger, i work from home so sometimes I'm caught out by a badly timed Bong Vs business phone-call scenario), my mood at the time (I never suffer these effects when I feel great anyway) and the speed at which I've gone from 0 - 100 (BIG deciding factor - too fast sometimes = 'too high') and therefore very easy to rationalise and recover from.

It's worth noting that I've suffered with anxiety / introversion issues all my life, WAY before my Cannabis use began in my mid-twenties - however I feel strongly that Cannabis is a help rather than a hindrance, I have a theory as to why.

I think it's simply because I'm super interested and passionate about Cannabis and so over time I've built up a tolerance that affords some benefits. I'm the kind of smoker that gets through a couple of grams of flowers (or the equivalent in dabs) a day - every day. Some days - with extra edibles. For breakfast So on the odd occasions that I do find myself on the wrong side of 'too high' I feel like I'm so familiar with being 100% baked and remaining functional so often that I'm able to pick out the circumstances that have led to the predicament.

I think that level of calm rationale is very difficult to achieve if you're not familiar with what you're experiencing - but is the fundamental corner-stone to understanding the levels to which tolerance can be pushed.

What I'm trying to convey is that I'm convinced that most cannabis anxiety related attacks are caused by unfamiliarity rather than the physiological or psychotic overdose episode it can feel like to the uninitiated. The panic sets in and emotion takes over.

I find that doesn't happen to me anymore; it's just a feeling of mild discomfort that I'm able to think my way through. The distance that Cannabis provides from my ego has helped me no end in the long-term. I now have the same useful perspective every time I feel anxious, regardless of Cannabis intake - I'm not sure I could have managed that without the lesson the herbs have given me.

I wouldn't advise anyone do the same as that would be irresponsible - but I genuinely feel that exploring the boundaries of what 'too high' means and constantly pushing through that has given me the edge over my psychological tendency to panic when under pressure.

[CopenhagenCouple]

It would be hard to agree more than I do with OHMF, without coming of as either having a very brown nose or a bit of mancrush, but that was some real clever stuff he just put to paper (or at least this digital successor). From my own experiences (and experimentation), and from observing and interacting with others who have gone the same or different paths, I also strongly believe that "pushing the bounds of tolerance" opens up a whole new spectrum of (to me and the missus both) very enjoyable experiences and effects. A good example would be the more trippy and even at times psychedelic effects that cannabis can have at significantly higher doses than a casual smoker is likely to tolerate...


Will have more to say later (surprise surprise)...

[RobertD]

OHMF - much appreciate you sharing that. I totally relate to the point about it being context- and mood-dependent (having to answer a formal phone call while fucked - that took me back ).

It's really promising that weed gives you (and many others) relief from anxiety, but, come to think of it, I can't say that's ever been the case for me, even in the old days when smoking was just a part of my everyday life. It would definitely raise anxiety, but only really in those situations when I had to step out of my comfort zone for whatever reason while high. Same with paranoia, and also increased shyness/awkwardness around people outside my close circle. (Interestingly, these are all almost polar opposites to how I react to alcohol.) But you can't stop being a pothead while the positives are still outweighing the negatives Fingers crossed, with all the cannabis development and science that seems to be going on at the moment (on CBD-THC ratios, etc.), there'll soon be something out there for everyone!

From my own experiences (and experimentation), and from observing and interacting with others who have gone the same or different paths, I also strongly believe that "pushing the bounds of tolerance" opens up a whole new spectrum of (to me and the missus both) very enjoyable experiences and effects. A good example would be the more trippy and even at times psychedelic effects that cannabis can have at significantly higher doses than a casual smoker is likely to tolerate...


Will have more to say later (surprise surprise)...

Again, that rings true for me to the extent that there seems to come a time at the end of certain sessions when you've smoked so much that you can't seem to get any higher, the mental effects slowly fade for whatever reason, and all that's left is this feeling of extreme calm and relaxation. You can't really beat that feeling (or achieve it, needless to say, with an alcohol binge). Look forward to hearing more about these trips you're having