Amsterdam Coffeeshop Directory Forums

for my two cents i do not think that society (Irish & Uk at least as these I am familiar with) is in any way ready for the legalisation of hard drugs.

for this to be even contemplated (imo) would talk a many years of proper and honest drug education.

the biggest problem we have is that our children are routinely lied to by (ignorant) authority figures about drug use, effects and dangers. this is where the damage begins.

ok, I really mean it this time:
Fuck you people!

everyone who is against legalization of ANY drug has no idea at all. sorry to tell you, but this is the truth. heroin has no harm on the body when in 100% pure form, cocaine-leaves dont do much harm to the body, at least not more than coffee (which I would suggest most of you consume?).

legalisation is the only way. people will ALWAYS TAKE DRUGS, if legal or not you cant make them stop it.

and to the people who are talking about having kids and shit....would you rather see your son going into a bar where he can buy pure heroin/cocain-leaves instead of buying from a fucked street-dealer who will put as much shit into both drugs as he can? because you cant make him stop, if your kids WANT to try anything, then they will do, everyone knows that from his own childhood....I would rather like to see everything legalised, so that if my kids go to a shop they are being told what the effects of each drug are and so on, instead of getting it from suspicious people.

AND with the legalisation, the REAL criminals (politicians,mafia etc.) would not have as much power as they do now....which is the only real reason why its still illegal in my opinion

Bang on, sh@dy & colinzeal!

To me it is somewhat sad to read that some of us think _we_ know which drugs' use should be legal, and which should remain criminalized. That really doesn't make us that much different than our wrongheaded governments.

And more sadly, imo, colinzeal is EXACTLY right about the politics of it. The depth of misinformation and hypocrisy in my home country (USA) is similar, and of course contributes to the aspects of "drug war" that are really and truly the most dangerous thing associated with illicit production, transport and use.

In fact we are leagues away from the level of societal sanity that would permit even an incremental approach to legalization of most drugs - including our own favorites!

Just witness the ritual mocking by the current US president of any question that marijuana could be decriminalized -- he can't approach it seriously, he knows he has to outright dismiss and ridicule the idea -- and he represents the absolute limit of acceptable "liberal" opinion in the USA!

sh@dy wrote:ok, I really mean it this time:
Fuck you people!

everyone who is against legalization of ANY drug has no idea at all. sorry to tell you, but this is the truth. heroin has no harm on the body when in 100% pure form, cocaine-leaves dont do much harm to the body, at least not more than coffee (which I would suggest most of you consume?).

legalisation is the only way. people will ALWAYS TAKE DRUGS, if legal or not you cant make them stop it.

and to the people who are talking about having kids and shit....would you rather see your son going into a bar where he can buy pure heroin/cocain-leaves instead of buying from a fucked street-dealer who will put as much shit into both drugs as he can? because you cant make him stop, if your kids WANT to try anything, then they will do, everyone knows that from his own childhood....I would rather like to see everything legalised, so that if my kids go to a shop they are being told what the effects of each drug are and so on, instead of getting it from suspicious people.

AND with the legalisation, the REAL criminals (politicians,mafia etc.) would not have as much power as they do now....which is the only real reason why its still illegal in my opinion

with all do respect sh@dy have you been in a family affected by drugs? have you had to lay next to a sibiling at night and pound on their chest when their heart stops going off beat from speedballing? have you had to get calls from the medical center that a loved one overdosed? im sure you will say you have and thats cool. but dont judge and tell someone to f off until you have walked a mile in their shoes my friend.


and as far as heroin having no harm on the body in its 100% pure form..thats not really a realistic comparison. even if it was true if you could go out to an avg big city in the world outside of south east asia or Afghanistan and find 100% pure heroin id eat my hat. your mostly going to find contaminated stuff and mexican black tar here in the us and prob similiar situation in europe. iv heard of people overdosing on opium and thats pretty pure. most kinda of opiats can kill you if you take enough.

sh@dy wrote:o
and to the people who are talking about having kids and shit....would you rather see your son going into a bar where he can buy pure heroin/cocain-leaves instead of buying from a fucked street-dealer who will put as much shit into both drugs as he can?

I would rather my parenting skills stopped my kids from doing either.

With all due respect shady fuck you. Talk to the addicts and people with problems and see if it changes your mind. It may not cause a mental amount of harm on the body, but it causes harm. It causes harm to society and reduces peoples abilty to fulfill there potential thats a sad thing. I deal with kids on a daily basis whos parents use drugs heavily. It effects them greatly, thats damage. Im over this, ive discussed it hugely before, if you want to challenge me use the search Luke and find any points and address them and ill answer if the answer hasnt been already said.

I find it funny how people who say a blanket system of prohibtion of drugs is shit and anyone who thinks it works is a fool. But state that their blanket solution will work. NO BLANKET SOLUTION WILL EVER WORK. That simple.

cantona7 wrote:have you had to lay next to a sibiling at night and pound on their chest when their heart stops going off beat from speedballing?

Was your sibling helped by prohibition? Would s/he have been in the same situation if s/he knew the purity of the drugs?

SirNiall wrote:I would rather my parenting skills stopped my kids from doing either.

I'm sure we would all *rather* our loved ones didn't take drugs, but the last time I looked, we don't get to make that decision.

SirNiall wrote:I find it funny how people who say a blanket system of prohibtion of drugs is shit and anyone who thinks it works is a fool. But state that their blanket solution will work. NO BLANKET SOLUTION WILL EVER WORK. That simple.

What do you mean by 'work'? A cessation of all drug use?

If it becomes apparent that a system doesn't function properly, then it should be changed, even if the outcome of the changes are not fully understood. Only then is progress made.

It's also worth noting that the selective-drug prohibition that we have now started life less than 90 years ago, so maybe the term should be RE-legalisation.

doobydave wrote:

cantona7 wrote:have you had to lay next to a sibiling at night and pound on their chest when their heart stops going off beat from speedballing?

Was your sibling helped by prohibition? Would s/he have been in the same situation if s/he knew the purity of the drugs?

SirNiall wrote:I would rather my parenting skills stopped my kids from doing either.

I'm sure we would all *rather* our loved ones didn't take drugs, but the last time I looked, we don't get to make that decision.

SirNiall wrote:I find it funny how people who say a blanket system of prohibtion of drugs is shit and anyone who thinks it works is a fool. But state that their blanket solution will work. NO BLANKET SOLUTION WILL EVER WORK. That simple.

What do you mean by 'work'? A cessation of all drug use?

If it becomes apparent that a system doesn't function properly, then it should be changed, even if the outcome of the changes are not fully understood. Only then is progress made.

It's also worth noting that the selective-drug prohibition that we have now started life less than 90 years ago, so maybe the term should be RE-legalisation.

wouldn't my sibling have been better off not taking drugs at all as opposed to taking these pure drugs? in alot of cases of overdose its how much one takes. someone could go on a drug binge and then stop..then 6 months later decide to say shoot up again with the doseage they last used 6 months ago..boom your dead or nearly.


i just dont get this arguement. drugs can kill you..if legalised they will be that much cheaper and accessible. i just dont see how this can be good. you can say yea you wouldn't have to go through dodgy dealers and what not but imo these people who go to these sketchy dealers know what they are getting into when they go to get their fix. cal me a conservative yank if you wish i couldn't care less really. in this issue i am conservative i guess.

cantona7 wrote:wouldn't my sibling have been better off not taking drugs at all as opposed to taking these pure drugs?

Absolutely. And prohibition helped achieve this how exactly?

doobydave wrote:
What do you mean by 'work'? A cessation of all drug use?

If it becomes apparent that a system doesn't function properly, then it should be changed, even if the outcome of the changes are not fully understood. Only then is progress made.

It's also worth noting that the selective-drug prohibition that we have now started life less than 90 years ago, so maybe the term should be RE-legalisation.

Sorry dude, i define work as lowering harder drug use which cause the greater damage to the indivitual. I am against hard drug use, i have seen the damages hard drugs can do.

I agree that changing a system in most cases is the best thing to do. But as i said before a blanket solution does not ever work, so therefore i think when it comes to a situation when you are possibly effecting peoples health, the society at large and the younger generation to come without knowing the full effects it isnt that simple. I think if we look at the current effects the drugs have on communitys and the people who live there in the communities where the drugs are common place, it is obviously not a good situation.

I agree with your point about the term.

doobydave wrote:

cantona7 wrote:wouldn't my sibling have been better off not taking drugs at all as opposed to taking these pure drugs?

Absolutely. And prohibition helped achieve this how exactly?

hows decriminalization supposed to help those addicts that are trying to stay sober and get ahead in life? atleast in prohibition one has to make a good effort..go downtown or something and ask around or find your dealer to get the fix. it would make things alot harder if there were shops selling coke,heroin,meth,etc. do things like meth really have a place in legal society?


also with legalisation wouldn't there just be more coke/smack heads around? iv already had my house robbed of nearly $8000 worth of stuff by an opiate addict and this seems like it would just up these situations. even when legal people who dont have the cash to support their habit will be around. people wont have the cash to get their drugs and will go to extremes to get it just like in prohibition.

now this conversation kicked off into the wrong direction....

cantona7 wrote:

doobydave wrote:

cantona7 wrote:wouldn't my sibling have been better off not taking drugs at all as opposed to taking these pure drugs?

Absolutely. And prohibition helped achieve this how exactly?

also with legalisation wouldn't there just be more coke/smack heads around? iv already had my house robbed of nearly $8000 worth of stuff by an opiate addict and this seems like it would just up these situations. even when legal people who dont have the cash to support their habit will be around. people wont have the cash to get their drugs and will go to extremes to get it just like in prohibition.

how much do you think would any drug made of a plant cost if it was legal? no one would have to rob someone else to buy them.....

That argument piss's me off so much. Tolerence means that eventually you will need more and more to get high, eventually people will get to the stage where your habit is beyond your means. By your logic there would be no crimes such as piss heads robbing booze from shops etc. Which is all know never happens Booze is a legal drug, why would people have to rob for it, they could always afford it. Wrong, tolerance + addiction means that crimes are carried out for pissheads to afford booze.

I agree with Sir Niall, but I guess you don't understand what shady meant.
His point is, it's drugs from plants. Everybody could just plant their garden full with it, it doesn't cost a lot to produce. So there would be no problem and everybody could produce his own supply with little effort nor money.

JMey wrote:I agree with Sir Niall, but I guess you don't understand what shady meant.
His point is, it's drugs from plants. Everybody could just plant their garden full with it, it doesn't cost a lot to produce. So there would be no problem and everybody could produce his own supply with little effort nor money.

With Cannabis yes, but Herion and Coke require a form of interfernce with the natural plant to produce the substance. Its not quite as simple as growing Cannabis. Thats why coke cooks earn a huge amount of money, because its a subtle art that not everyone can do. Keep in mind climates as well, the Coca plant may not thrive in the English climate, the opium poppy may also run into issues. Its not realistic.