John Venables

Sir Niall of Essex-sire · Mon 8th Mar 2010 10:37 am

Jaime Bulgers killer has returned back to prison, Bulgers mother is due to appear on TV and claim rights pertaining to the knowledge of Venables latest crime/alleged crime which has resulted in him returning to prison. Do we as a forum/online community have a view on this?

Does the women deserve to know this?
Is she over stepping her rights to know this?
If so why does she have rights above those of other victims of crimes?
Are we allowing Venables rights or denying rights that a other criminal/released criminal would have?

Interesting subject imo.

Boner · Post by **Boner** » Mon 8th Mar 2010 10:39 am

It's Jon Venebles btw and yes I think she and everyone else has a right to know what he's done, he should never of been released and if the newspapers claims that he had cat 4 porn (serious child pornography) then it'll be proof that he should never of been allowed out, this countries justice system is a fucking joke.

Twichaldinho · Post by **Twichaldinho** » Mon 8th Mar 2010 10:40 am

I shouldn't laugh, but I thought, " Whats big Tel been up to now "

I agree with boner 100%.

TRANCE · Post by **TRANCE** » Mon 8th Mar 2010 10:51 am

This was raised on Question time the other day and I disagreed with Will Self who was on the guest panel.

Yes, we have a right to know and he should not be given yet another new identity.

Sir Niall of Essex-sire · Mon 8th Mar 2010 10:57 am

Fuck, that was a bit of an Epic fail, i'll sort that out. My Wake and Bakes batter me more than usual.

I fear i'm about to be extremely controversial, but my view is that she has no rights pertaining to information on Venables. I just want to say i think the crime commited is completely in excusable and i do not want to be viewed as justifying or siding with the murders of the young boy.

I think that he served the sentence for his crime, whether this sentence was long enough etc i few as a different issue, so he is no paid back to society. It is hard to hold it against the criminals the state assigned punishments. I also think there are many cases of horrible crimes when mothers do not claim to have these rights.

IMO, these boys are being judged by the preconceptions society held, that children are good and innocent, they went against this and shook the core of society and human understanding. It is because of this i think that there is such sympathy to the rights of Miss Bulger, because we like to think these two kids were evil, and it's arguable if they are of course, rather than taking reponsibilty for our society that created them.

There was recently a crime involving a couple of under 10's that stabbed another young child, this held much less significance although in theory the crime is the same. It makes me wonder if the Bulger crime happened tomorrow, would it of been such a landmark moment?

spidergawd · Post by **spidergawd** » Mon 8th Mar 2010 11:09 am

Every week men kill children, more often than not its husbands or partners deciding that "if I can't have them, then nobody will". They go to prison do their time and no one ever hears about them again.
What makes these men so different, what is it about some cases that brings out the lynch mob mentality I wonder, and I'm not accusing anyone on here of that. Remember these were children that were brought up if I can use that phrase, in households were adults took no responsibility for them, they were exposed to videos of extreme violence and sex and then as 10 year olds they went out and committed the terrible crime that they did. I fear Boner that as much as I agree that the justice system is screwed I also think that the society and communities that these and many other children and young people have to grow up in often fail miserably in giving them any kind of moral compass or sense of values.
Not excusing their crime, just trying to bring some perspective to a very emotive issue.

Peace Spider.

gixxer · Post by **gixxer** » Mon 8th Mar 2010 11:21 am

get him and thompson together ,stand them back to backand blow their fucking brains over a wall ,,,, papers are hinting hes been arrested over kiddie porn,that should carry a death sentence in my book

Toker70 · Post by **Toker70** » Mon 8th Mar 2010 11:24 am

Agree with Boner as well!!
Anyone who hurts a child or an elderly person should get the full wrath of the law and society in general imo and not be afforded any protection.
The death sentence is too good for these fuckers they should be made suffer everyday of their worthless lives

Sir Niall of Essex-sire · Mon 8th Mar 2010 11:28 am

spidergawd wrote:Every week men kill children, more often than not its husbands or partners deciding that "if I can't have them, then nobody will". They go to prison do their time and no one ever hears about them again.
What makes these men so different, what is it about some cases that brings out the lynch mob mentality I wonder, and I'm not accusing anyone on here of that. Remember these were children that were brought up if I can use that phrase, in households were adults took no responsibility for them, they were exposed to videos of extreme violence and sex and then as 10 year olds they went out and committed the terrible crime that they did. I fear Boner that as much as I agree that the justice system is screwed I also think that the society and communities that these and many other children and young people have to grow up in often fail miserably in giving them any kind of moral compass or sense of values.
Not excusing their crime, just trying to bring some perspective to a very emotive issue.

Peace Spider.

I agree with you man.

Also, what about are system being based on rebilitation, surely a 10 year old should be given the chance to? What he done was evil, and he should of been punished, which was handed out to him. I struggle with the concept of a 10 year old being fully aware of their actions and the consequences of such actions.

I still cant see why the Mother is claiming such rights? Unless they are granted to all Victims of Crime. Which is another argument i guess.

Boner · Post by **Boner** » Mon 8th Mar 2010 11:33 am

Are we being held in the dark because he hasn't been charged yet, is it because he has a new identity?

There was a 16 year old girl murdered very recently and they've arrested and charged the guy and his name has been released, whats the differance exactly?

TRANCE · Post by **TRANCE** » Mon 8th Mar 2010 11:45 am

Images rated at level 4 - the second most serious - were allegedly found on his home computer, ie, child abuse stuff. I believe Jack Straw is sorting it out today. I think we all have a right to know, especially if he has gone on to do something similar or attempted to, etc.

Sir Niall of Essex-sire · Mon 8th Mar 2010 11:54 am

Boner wrote:Are we being held in the dark because he hasn't been charged yet, is it because he has a new identity?

There was a 16 year old girl murdered very recently and they've arrested and charged the guy and his name has been released, whats the differance exactly?

I thought it was because of the conditions on his release was that he can be returned to jail if he was felt to pose a danger. If being the prime word there. Because he can be held without charge, i was under the impression his charge cannot be realesed until he is actually charged. Perhaps the details were released once he was charged? Also, it's not the name but the charge that isn't being released in this case. That could be off the mark though and im looking for someone who knows alot more about it than me to rip that to pieces.

Also it would danger any court case, for the details to be released of such a high profile case it could en-danger any court case in regards to a fair trail. So if he has done something really bad, he would not get charged just to feed the public a bit of gossip?

Also, i think it could be because the public cant be trusted with such information, hence why Mrs Bulger hasn't been told. Because there is a risk of her letting it slip, therefore endangering the court procedures.

Marco · Post by **Marco** » Mon 8th Mar 2010 03:21 pm

I will never understand the absurd level of privacy according to serious criminals in Europe. The use of initials in the pre-trial and trial stage is understandable but once convicted this person's name should be a matter of public record, available to potential partners, employers, etc.

If this cretin wanted privacy, he should not be killing people or promoting the horrific sexual abuse of children.

Has he ever been in an adult prison? I would assume his days are numbered if he is released into general population. Poor fucking baby....

joeuk · Post by **joeuk** » Mon 8th Mar 2010 03:22 pm

no he had never set foot in adult jail till this latest incident

Cisco · Post by **Cisco** » Mon 8th Mar 2010 03:28 pm

I agree with Boner 100% ! why should potential victims not know who they are living near , although the vigilante effect may be a problem ! i believe there is going to be a new law where you can apply for information on potential partners , neighbours etc ! That will be based on honesty and the person will not be allowed to reveal details !