9 /11

[codejd]

i was on a plane from Schiphol which departed about an hour late leaving us in limbo as we attempted to enter US airspace...didn't quite make it...Canada was beautiful though for 3 days...

What did they tell you on the plane?

grab your ankles ...

if we had left on time, we would have been one of the last planes let into US airspace and we would have peacefully landed at ORD where i had a buddy ready to whisk me away to his home for as long as need be...but, nope ...i was on Singapore Airlines which is a very different airline to say the least with a different mix of people than you would normally find on a US-bound/US-carrier...

i'm one of those people who check the monitors displaying all the flight information and i always like to feel that initial decent as it kind of gets me excited or anxious i suppose...well i felt the initial decent just after i checked the monitor displaying that we had about 2 hours left until arrival so i knew something wasn't right...then i checked the monitor again and our destination had changed from ORD to YYZ and immediately began to freak out a little bit...

the ironic thing at this point was back to the mix of people on the plane; i was traveling alone and without a cell phone (since i didn't have a GSM unit i felt it wasn't even worth taking along in my prior trips to the Dam so i never brought one, but i always have since! )...the guy sitting next to me was already on his cell phone but he was of Asian decent and i didn't understand a word he said when i asked him was going on...all i got was something like; "old ade enter ombd"...he hung up and i showed him a $5 bill and motioned for his cell phone...he gave it over, still no announcement from the captain at this point...

i hurriedly called my brother and said; "dude, what's going on?" and he was freaking out!!!...asking me where i was, if i was okay, if i had spoken to our mom & dad, etc. he filled me in and i asked him to book me a hotel room somewhere in Toronto as it looked like that's where we were headed and might be there for a while which he thankfully did.

the captain had come on at this point telling us ONLY that US airspace had been closed but of course most people had sketchy details from all the cell phones being used...we really didn't know exactly what was going on until we got off the plane and to a local hotel though.

we got REALLY lucky though by being one of the first planes on the ground; they didn't know what to do with us so they simply let us get off, reclaim our luggage and shuttle over to a nearby hotel where they had food, TV's and people to help us get sorted out...by the time i was checked in having a smoke (thankfully no scanners in AMS back then!) and some dinner we heard that they were no longer letting people off the planes, holding them on the tarmac instead, some up to 12+ hours

3 days in Canada, an interesting flight to Chicago, one night there and then a flight within about 200 miles of where i live...rent a car and got the fuck home

[tron]

Interesting article from Rick Steves

http://www.facebook.com/#!/notes/rick-s ... 0167439701

[Uncle Ron]

I was stationed at Walter Reed AMC at the time. Within an hour we had taken over the DiLorenzo (Pentagon) Clinic and began coordinating the medical portion of the rescue/recovery effort. No words can describe what I saw that day and the following days as well.

Something special for conspiracy theorists out there - I was on site and saw the carnage. Not everything disintegrated on impact - pieces of aircraft and human remains were scattered throughout the crash site, especially in the D Ring. Full stop.

[bennybacker]

First of all my thoughts go out to all the families effected by this devestating event.

I was NOT going to mention the conspiracy theories but after at least three comments against these conspiracy theories I think a counter arguement is needed.

Surely there are too many questions and discrepancies for people to beleive this was the sole work of some middle eastern chaps who could barely fly small planes never mind big ones!

My only anger on this subject is the Pro American - Americans who won't even have a discussion. They use the devastating effect it had on families as some reason why we should shut up and not ask questions. They are as bad as the crazy christian's you have in that country who when challenged about God there response goes something like - God lived, It happened, I believe it - and thats the end of the arguement!!!!

All people want is the truth, what's wrong in asking questions. They don't seek to upset the families of the dead and why should there questions offend?


"They must find it difficult... Those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority." -G. Massey

[colinzeal]

Questioning does not make one a conspiracy theorist, questioning is rarely a negative thing. What makes someone a conspiracy theorist is refusing to accept the logic based answers when they don't align with their pre-conceived notions, that and using supposed facts to support their argument but selectively ignoring evidence that destroy their claims.

Conspiracy Theories in general prevent important questions being answered by swamping them out with fantastic all encompassing fairytales.

Questioning: Good
Refusing to accept truth and logic when it fails to support the conspiracy: Bad

[Dava]

Questioning does not make one a conspiracy theorist, questioning is rarely a negative thing. What makes someone a conspiracy theorist is refusing to accept the logic based answers when they don't align with their pre-conceived notions, that and using supposed facts to support their argument but selectively ignoring evidence that destroy their claims.

Conspiracy Theories in general prevent important questions being answered by swamping them out with fantastic all encompassing fairytales.

Questioning: Good
Refusing to accept truth and logic when it fails to support the conspiracy: Bad

yes that is all true and may everyone who died on this day RIP.

althought it is one thing that we will never know what actually happened, although many americans and constructions specialist are all wanting a proper research into this as they have closed to report and not allowing anything to be added into it, the officialy 9/11 report does NOT include the falling on WTC 7. why?

[Uncle Ron]

I should clarify which CT's I am referring to - those that claim a missile or something other than an airliner crashed into the Pentagon.

As for other conspiracies related to these tragic events, hell if I know. I suppose there could be the "six degrees of separation" ala Kevin Bacon, to wit, the CIA, ':twisted:' and or the all-mighty-holier-than-thou military industrial complex of the US, and other nations, and or oil, and or all or none of the above. ':?'

Just a random thought...
What if a radical fundamentalist with access to hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars becomes so obsessed with the total eradication of all religions, beliefs, and cultural norms except those of his own? Sometimes things are exactly as they appear to be, and needless to say sometimes there are not.

Given the history, not only between the US and Saudi Arabia, but that of the entire Muslim world, this was bound to happen in some form. Western capitalists have been raping third-world countries for the past couple of centuries, and oh by the way, these countries are mostly Muslim, go figure. I wonder if their animosity towards the West has any bearing on events of the past four decades, starting with airliner hijackings and oil embargoes?

Push hard enough and people will find a way to push back. Capitalism was the cause, religious fanaticism is the effect, along with war.

Just a random thought.
Peace to all.

[Stanky Danky]

Capitalism was the cause

At least you got one thing right.

[spidergawd]

bennybacker wrote

I was NOT going to mention the conspiracy theories but after at least three comments against these conspiracy theories I think a counter arguement is needed.

There are not any comments "against" conspiracy theories that I can see, just gentle reminders that posters in this thread are having a moment of reflection on something truly awful. So if you want to do conspiracy theories on 9/11, or anything else really then go ahead start a thread, ask your questions say your piece and folks will engage with you no doubt, but at the moment you're in danger of crapping on the roses man.

Stanky Danky Wrote
[/quote]At least you got one thing right

And now stanky danky crawls out, I didn't think it would be long before you popped up. I bet you can smell shit a hundred miles up wind.

[Stanky Danky]

And now stanky danky crawls out, I didn't think it would be long before you popped up. I bet you can smell shit a hundred miles up wind.

Yeah I wasn't going to pop up out of respect for the theme of the thread, but since others already disrespected it I decided it was OK. I didn't have to smell a hundred miles up wind either ron's post wreaked of it.

[Adamster]

What about the ppl of Iraq? and what did they do to get Bombed in March 2003?
Only 3000 ppl died on 9/11 Yes was sad and everyone even myself was wondering WTF is it the end of the world ...blah blah....and the 5000 or soldier whom died for NOTHING... but what about all them poor ppl in Iraq and Afghan Whom died and number is WAY HIGHER then 8-9000 deaths

then you got what the japans did How many ppl died at pearl harbor?
2,403 AMERICANS DIED!!

Now How many Japs died in japan by the 2 bombs?
90,000–166,000 people in Hiroshima and 60,000–80,000 in Nagasaki

SO WHO THE REAL TERRORIST? Number DONT LIE!

Then what about Vietnam? the SO CALLED Cummy Enemies total was 1,177,462

American and allies 315,384 died!
Again Whos the TERRORISTS?

In god we Trust!!! and the Choose one are goin all to HELL!
You shall not Kill!
You Shall not Steal!
You shall not make for yourself an idol
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor

al these Commandment were Broken By both and Shoulld be choose to go to HELL!!!I also understand that most of you out there been Brainwashed by AMerican and French anglo Propaganda wit jewish ruled media....


Hope you like my chinese Mishmash!

[HasAnyoneSeenMyPipe]

The thing is with the atomic bombs is that the allied forces would have had 1,000,000 dead with the invasion of the Japanese home islands and that the then Japanese governments own disregard for the lives of their own citizens was another factor in the decision to drop the bombs. Stanky, I gotta ask what is your avatar dude.

[joeuk]

What about the ppl of Iraq? and what did they do to get Bombed in March 2003?
Only 3000 ppl died on 9/11 Yes was sad and everyone even myself was wondering WTF is it the end of the world ...blah blah....and the 5000 or soldier whom died for NOTHING... but what about all them poor ppl in Iraq and Afghan Whom died and number is WAY HIGHER then 8-9000 deaths

then you got what the japans did How many ppl died at pearl harbor?
2,403 AMERICANS DIED!!

Now How many Japs died in japan by the 2 bombs?
90,000–166,000 people in Hiroshima and 60,000–80,000 in Nagasaki

SO WHO THE REAL TERRORIST? Number DONT LIE!

Then what about Vietnam? the SO CALLED Cummy Enemies total was 1,177,462

American and allies 315,384 died!
Again Whos the TERRORISTS?

In god we Trust!!! and the Choose one are goin all to HELL!
You shall not Kill!
You Shall not Steal!
You shall not make for yourself an idol
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor

al these Commandment were Broken By both and Shoulld be choose to go to HELL!!!I also understand that most of you out there been Brainwashed by AMerican and French anglo Propaganda wit jewish ruled media....


Hope you like my chinese Mishmash!

haha your fucked in the head

[Stanky Danky]

Stanky, I gotta ask what is your avatar dude.

It's a mutant pig. Look's like somebody was fucking their pig to me.

[cantona7]

What about the ppl of Iraq? and what did they do to get Bombed in March 2003?
Only 3000 ppl died on 9/11 Yes was sad and everyone even myself was wondering WTF is it the end of the world ...blah blah....and the 5000 or soldier whom died for NOTHING... but what about all them poor ppl in Iraq and Afghan Whom died and number is WAY HIGHER then 8-9000 deaths

then you got what the japans did How many ppl died at pearl harbor?
2,403 AMERICANS DIED!!

Now How many Japs died in japan by the 2 bombs?
90,000–166,000 people in Hiroshima and 60,000–80,000 in Nagasaki

SO WHO THE REAL TERRORIST? Number DONT LIE!

Then what about Vietnam? the SO CALLED Cummy Enemies total was 1,177,462

American and allies 315,384 died!
Again Whos the TERRORISTS?

In god we Trust!!! and the Choose one are goin all to HELL!
You shall not Kill!
You Shall not Steal!
You shall not make for yourself an idol
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor

al these Commandment were Broken By both and Shoulld be choose to go to HELL!!!I also understand that most of you out there been Brainwashed by AMerican and French anglo Propaganda wit jewish ruled media....


Hope you like my chinese Mishmash!

if your going to bring the japanese into this google some of the bullshit they pulled in manchuria,philllipines and how they treated their pow's. and how the northern vietnamese treated their pow's. your arguement is good your just picking bad examples.

and like the guy above said a mainland invasion of japan would have involved so much more civilian deaths it doesn't take much to figure that out. the Japanese were ready to fight to the last man. im against the use of nuclear weapons and i'd like to think there was a better way to handle the situation, who knows.