possible new dutch coaliton announce new plans

Boner · Post by **Boner** » Sat 9th Oct 2010 07:50 pm

I doubt the people who go for the architecture, the art, the museums, the culture and the history will give 2 shits if the coffeeshops are there or not, sorry but I dont think it'll make much differance to the tourists money, you have to remember that a lot of what goes on in the coffeeshop culture is black market so the government dont see a lot of what the shops make (just my humble opinion).

Cisco · Post by **Cisco** » Sat 9th Oct 2010 08:45 pm

Is cannabis not taxed though ? surely that alone shall be a big drop out the countries economy ?

Im not really gonna start worrying till the law/ruling whatever has been passed and all shops are shut or for residents only , as lets face it everything has been speculation on what will/wont happen so far , then it will be time to move to the Netherlands

Occasional Bowl · Post by **Occasional Bowl** » Sat 9th Oct 2010 08:47 pm

Boner wrote:I doubt the people who go for the architecture, the art, the museums, the culture and the history will give 2 shits if the coffeeshops are there or not, sorry but I dont think it'll make much differance to the tourists money, you have to remember that a lot of what goes on in the coffeeshop culture is black market so the government dont see a lot of what the shops make (just my humble opinion).

I love the architecture, the art, museums the history and the culture. I also love the Coffeeshops which for me are part of the culture of Amsterdam.
I am very depressed about the news of this policy as it represents a step backwards to the worthless, ineffectual prohibitionism that we have in the UK.
Do the Dutch coalition honestly believe that this will make things better?

I have to say that as I've got older, I've got used to the world crapping on every ideal I've ever had. But in the Coffeeshop system I found one tiny corner of the world that seemed to be approaching sanity. Now this will be gone.

wietroker · Post by **wietroker** » Sat 9th Oct 2010 08:57 pm

Occasional Bowl wrote: I am very depressed about the news of this policy as it represents a step backwards to the worthless, ineffectual prohibitionism that we have in the UK.
Do the Dutch coalition honestly believe that this will make things better?

I have to say that as I've got older, I've got used to the world crapping on every ideal I've ever had. But in the Coffeeshop system I found one tiny corner of the world that seemed to be approaching sanity. Now this will be gone.

This is the flip-side to proportional representation. Every party has a say so they negotiate for ages.

For weeks here, it seemed to flip between left or right wing, Wilders in or Wilders out. Finally, it looks like this right wing cabinet is becoming a reality.

So those who voted for Groenlinks, D66 or other parties, even the big PvDA, essentially get no representation.

The CDA I think have been considered centre-right in the past. The ridiculous thing is that they are now the only hope of the more liberal or left leaning or even the centrists, to counter the effects of the two other right wing (one especially so) parties.

Now, I'm actually a centrist when it comes to politics, I believe in things balancing out. PR doesn't always work because now we have a coaltion that is very right wing and is not representative of Amsterdam at all. And it's highly arguable if it even represents the country.

I want the mayor to show his hand. Maybe he already has but I don't read the Dutch papers in great depth. Capital city mayors can go their own way to some extent. If only we still had Cohen. The guy left because he wanted to be PM by leading the PvdA but it backfired on him.

If you want to keep up then I recommend signing up to the Dutch News daily email service. Basically when their own daily news stories are released every afternoon then you get a nice email of top headline story links from the Dutch news.

Boner · Post by **Boner** » Sat 9th Oct 2010 09:20 pm

cisco wrote:Is cannabis not taxed though ? surely that alone shall be a big drop out the countries economy ?

Of course it's taxed but the shops have to buy it from a black market so they dont have to tell the complete truth about costs and such.

Cisco · Post by **Cisco** » Sat 9th Oct 2010 09:27 pm

Boner wrote:
cisco wrote:Is cannabis not taxed though ? surely that alone shall be a big drop out the countries economy ?
Of course it's taxed but the shops have to buy it from a black market so they dont have to tell the complete truth about costs and such.

Ah of course so i suppose they aint telling Mr taxman the whole truth !?

Iko · Post by **Iko** » Sat 9th Oct 2010 09:34 pm

They should just levy a 15% pot tax on sales, let them mull over how much money that will FURTHER inject into the economy.

SGawain235 · Post by **SGawain235** » Sat 9th Oct 2010 09:42 pm

Boner wrote:I doubt the people who go for the architecture, the art, the museums, the culture and the history will give 2 shits if the coffeeshops are there or not, sorry but I dont think it'll make much differance to the tourists money, you have to remember that a lot of what goes on in the coffeeshop culture is black market so the government dont see a lot of what the shops make (just my humble opinion).

The problem I see is that there are better cities for all of those. Art? I can stay in the US for that(some of the best art collections in the world are less than 100 miles from where I'm sitting now). If I just had to see European art that I can't see here in the US I'd go to Paris or Rome. Culture? When looking at all of the plans of the new government(not just the new CS regs) I'd have to say that the new Dutch culture would be a reason for me as a foreigner to stay away(especially as someone who looks vaguely Turkish after he's been in the sun for longer than 10 minutes). History? Again, Paris or Rome is much better than Amsterdam in that as well.

donpacino · Post by **donpacino** » Sat 9th Oct 2010 09:49 pm

wietroker wrote:
Occasional Bowl wrote: I am very depressed about the news of this policy as it represents a step backwards to the worthless, ineffectual prohibitionism that we have in the UK.
Do the Dutch coalition honestly believe that this will make things better?

I have to say that as I've got older, I've got used to the world crapping on every ideal I've ever had. But in the Coffeeshop system I found one tiny corner of the world that seemed to be approaching sanity. Now this will be gone.
This is the flip-side to proportional representation. Every party has a say so they negotiate for ages.

For weeks here, it seemed to flip between left or right wing, Wilders in or Wilders out. Finally, it looks like this right wing cabinet is becoming a reality.

So those who voted for Groenlinks, D66 or other parties, even the big PvDA, essentially get no representation.

The CDA I think have been considered centre-right in the past. The ridiculous thing is that they are now the only hope of the more liberal or left leaning or even the centrists, to counter the effects of the two other right wing (one especially so) parties.

Now, I'm actually a centrist when it comes to politics, I believe in things balancing out. PR doesn't always work because now we have a coaltion that is very right wing and is not representative of Amsterdam at all. And it's highly arguable if it even represents the country.

I want the mayor to show his hand. Maybe he already has but I don't read the Dutch papers in great depth. Capital city mayors can go their own way to some extent. If only we still had Cohen. The guy left because he wanted to be PM by leading the PvdA but it backfired on him.

If you want to keep up then I recommend signing up to the Dutch News daily email service. Basically when their own daily news stories are released every afternoon then you get a nice email of top headline story links from the Dutch news.

Could you reccomend a good site to sign up with to receive the dutch news emails?

Boner · Post by **Boner** » Sat 9th Oct 2010 09:54 pm

SGawain235 wrote:
Boner wrote:I doubt the people who go for the architecture, the art, the museums, the culture and the history will give 2 shits if the coffeeshops are there or not, sorry but I dont think it'll make much differance to the tourists money, you have to remember that a lot of what goes on in the coffeeshop culture is black market so the government dont see a lot of what the shops make (just my humble opinion).

The problem I see is that there are better cities for all of those. Art? I can stay in the US for that(some of the best art collections in the world are less than 100 miles from where I'm sitting now). If I just had to see European art that I can't see here in the US I'd go to Paris or Rome. Culture? When looking at all of the plans of the new government(not just the new CS regs) I'd have to say that the new Dutch culture would be a reason for me as a foreigner to stay away(especially as someone who looks vaguely Turkish after he's been in the sun for longer than 10 minutes). History? Again, Paris or Rome is much better than Amsterdam in that as well.

More people visit Amsterdam for the art and culture than they do for the weed.

wietroker · Post by **wietroker** » Sat 9th Oct 2010 10:06 pm

donpacino wrote:Could you reccomend a good site to sign up with to receive the dutch news emails?

http://www.dutchnews.nl/newsletter/

donpacino · Post by **donpacino** » Sat 9th Oct 2010 10:19 pm

Boner wrote:
SGawain235 wrote:
Boner wrote:I doubt the people who go for the architecture, the art, the museums, the culture and the history will give 2 shits if the coffeeshops are there or not, sorry but I dont think it'll make much differance to the tourists money, you have to remember that a lot of what goes on in the coffeeshop culture is black market so the government dont see a lot of what the shops make (just my humble opinion).

The problem I see is that there are better cities for all of those. Art? I can stay in the US for that(some of the best art collections in the world are less than 100 miles from where I'm sitting now). If I just had to see European art that I can't see here in the US I'd go to Paris or Rome. Culture? When looking at all of the plans of the new government(not just the new CS regs) I'd have to say that the new Dutch culture would be a reason for me as a foreigner to stay away(especially as someone who looks vaguely Turkish after he's been in the sun for longer than 10 minutes). History? Again, Paris or Rome is much better than Amsterdam in that as well.
More people visit Amsterdam for the art and culture than they do for the weed.

I think it is a mixture of art & culture and coffee shops and prostitution that brings the tourists in to the city, remove any of these and there will def be a knock on effect for the economy of the city. Tourists who come to amsterdam to primarly visit coffee shops also spend there money on the art & culture not to mention the bars, restaurants, hotels and taxi's (to name just a few), just like some people who never smoke at home may visit a coffee shop and smoke while on trip to amsterdam. The powers that be and the people of amsterdam know this and in my opinion wont go down without a fight.

Cisco · Post by **Cisco** » Sat 9th Oct 2010 10:36 pm

Boner wrote:
cisco wrote:Is cannabis not taxed though ? surely that alone shall be a big drop out the countries economy ?
Of course it's taxed but the shops have to buy it from a black market so they dont have to tell the complete truth about costs and such.

another thought , i thought it was 50% tax on any weed sold , so surely yearly profits etc will be reported or audited so it would jus be a case of checking receipts/tills etc , again its my theory i dont know how they do do it and i know its back door economy but i presume the tax revenue from all coffeeshops in NL to be substantial ? does anyone know how much revenue is made nationaly ?

Iko · Post by **Iko** » Sun 10th Oct 2010 12:57 am

You can enjoy most of the art in Amsterdam in one short trip quite easily, where as Paris or Rome it would take many months to see and absorb it all.
As far as actual collections of art go, you really can not do better than New York City.
So that leaves culture , right now Amsterdam is sitting pretty because it is UNIQUE in that regard ie. pot and prostitution.
Take that away and its just another European city with a history and a littering problem, sorry but those are a dime a dozen.

HasjDreamer · Post by **HasjDreamer** » Sun 10th Oct 2010 05:23 am

Boner, with all due respect... how many non-pot smoking, non-prosti shagging tourists visit Amsterdam more than just once, and for more than a couple of days or so?

Look at ANY European tour guide - 1 or 2 days in Amsterdam with 3-4 in Paris etc. Amsterdam without herb and prostis is just, well... Belgium? Even they have more castles.

Hey, when the wife and I fist came to A'dam back in the '90's we came for the weed and sexual atmosphere and fell in love with the whole town. I used to say it was the society that ALLOWED the coffeeshops to exist that we are smitten with, not just the coffeeshops themselves. Look, Vancouver/Oakland/LA etc. ALL have crazy weed scenes, but none of them were "Amsterdam". Now, what, even "Amsterdam" won't be "Amsterdam" anymore?

I agree, with ANY luck Amsterdam will remain an island of tolerance in a country gone MAD. We've been to A'dam 10 times and really haven't ventured too far out of town and with good reason; we've noticed a vibe change as close as Haarlem where we had our first rude encounter while buying fries from a street vendor who didn't seem to appreciate our lack of Dutch lingual skills!

Of course, as it's been said, we have BIGGER concerns than our beloved coffeeshops closing (I know, I know)... THE NETHERLANDS IS TURNING INTO A NAZI STATE!!! I'm beside myself that a country that once prided itself on "tolerance" is ready to turn its back on members of their own society based on where they were born or what their religion is?

Really, REALLY???

I mean, I see more burqa clad women in the greater Boston area than in Amsterdam; in fact, I feel a wee bit guilty because I love to scope out the rather attractive Moroccan women when on vacation. We've all been to the Moroccan owned shops, right? They're often the friendliest with quality product, cheap prices and some killer mint tea! I'm sorry but I believe that the reason people relocate to the Netherlands (or the US, UK etc) is because the WANT to be there. Welcome people into your society and they will eventually want to share in the best things that society has to offer - you see the young Moroccan kids hanging 'round town and NONE of the teenage girls are dressed conservatively. They're flirting with the Moroccan boys who are dressed in an urban hip hop style, just like teens from any urban area in virtually any western country.

If you've read any of my posts before you know my wife and I have had plans to relocate over to A'dam; I've been offered the transfer at my job and have even met with the office in Amsterdam but, truthfully, I have NO intention of moving over until the political climate evens out a bit. I don't want to be where, as a "foreigner", I'm not entirely welcome. And this comes from blonde-haired, blue-eyed westerner that passes for Dutch easily.

Sorry, I'm not sure what I was trying to get at - I just needed to vent. I'm pissed, I'm sad, I'm sick to my stomach! We have booked our apartment for December (arriving Sunday morning, December 5th until Sunday the 12th) and I imagine things will be a bit clearer by then (for better or worst).

In the meanwhile, I've been chatting online with my buddy over in the 'dam (he's a budtender) and nothing's been mentioned either way so apparently it's not as big a deal from their perspective as it is from ours.

We'll see, we'll see!

-HD