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roker wrote:I was willing to let bygones be bygones...

Of course you are. And James says hello.

roker wrote:

BlueStarHaze wrote:I should "fuck off out of Holland" if I dont like one of their traditions?

What a bizarre thing to say.

I dont like Cheese that much. Should I also "fuck off out of Holland?"

BSH

It's quite simple...I knew there'd be some bullshit from Marco about it being 'racist'...I got there first and prevented his bullshit...but actually, yes, if there are things you don't like and want to change, fuck off, it's not YOUR country...live and let live, when in Rome...heel simpel toch?

What a funny thing to say. You're actually saying, because I dont like Cheese, I should leave Holland? Bizarre.

If I want to have an opinion though, I am pretty sure I'm allowed to do that without having to "fuck off" out of the country, and I'm also sure, with a strong tradition of Individualism here, that my Dutch friends would say the same. And if there are things I want to change, I will get involved in Politics here and try to change it. This is called Democracy, and is not limited to those who were born here, but is a universal system for all citizens of the Netherlands. As far as I can recall, you dont live here, so why do you feel the need to prescribe solutions to me, who actually does live here?

If everyone "fucked off" out of a country when they disagreed with something, where would we be?

Maybe you simply need to rethink your stance, and put your point across in a more friendly fashion. You might even get (more) respect by doing that. Dont mean to be rude, but Im not keen on randoms telling me to leave a country, which they may have once spent some time in.

And yes, I get it, you speak Dutch. Do you want a medal?

BSH

BlueStarHaze wrote:

roker wrote:

BlueStarHaze wrote:I should "fuck off out of Holland" if I dont like one of their traditions?

What a bizarre thing to say.

I dont like Cheese that much. Should I also "fuck off out of Holland?"

BSH

It's quite simple...I knew there'd be some bullshit from Marco about it being 'racist'...I got there first and prevented his bullshit...but actually, yes, if there are things you don't like and want to change, fuck off, it's not YOUR country...live and let live, when in Rome...heel simpel toch?

What a funny thing to say. You're actually saying, because I dont like Cheese, I should leave Holland? Bizarre.

If I want to have an opinion though, I am pretty sure I'm allowed to do that without having to "fuck off" out of the country, and I'm also sure, with a strong tradition of Individualism here, that my Dutch friends would say the same. And if there are things I want to change, I will get involved in Politics here and try to change it. This is called Democracy, and is not limited to those who were born here, but is a universal system for all citizens of the Netherlands. As far as I can recall, you dont live here, so why do you feel the need to prescribe solutions to me, who actually does live here?

If everyone "fucked off" out of a country when they disagreed with something, where would we be?

Maybe you simply need to rethink your stance, and put your point across in a more friendly fashion. You might even get (more) respect by doing that. Dont mean to be rude, but Im not keen on randoms telling me to leave a country, which they may have once spent some time in.

And yes, I get it, you speak Dutch. Do you want a medal?

BSH

LOL! Tell it like is. Remember, if you are an EU citizen you can vote in local elections, I did.

And Roker, plenty of Dutch people think ZP is racist, there are organizations they are trying to chance the tradition. Small, yes, but all such movements start small.

Racism is not only about intention, its about perception. Neither of us (and I did not, despite your histrionics) can say ZP is either fully a racist tradition, nor can we say it has no links to black stereotyping and the ugly Dutch links to the slave trade.

roker wrote: It's quite simple...I knew there'd be some bullshit from Marco about it being 'racist'...I got there first and prevented his bullshit...

CHELSEA_SMOKERS_SOCIETY wrote:i witnessed the schwarte pete christmas parade thing on sunday on damrak.

to someone who wasnt fully aware of what this would entail.... it looked like the most hilariously offensive parade ever.... 200 or so white people all blacked up, looking essentially like 'black and white minstrles', parading down the main road to applause from loads of happy clappy people.

i know its steeped in tradition, and im sure the PC-ness of it has been raised a lot, but from an outsiders point of view it was fucking hilarious...

ill get the pictures up soon

Maybe it looks offensive to you because of the cultural impressions you bring from such things as th eBlack and White Minstrel show (or Al Jolson).
Let's not forget that on Nov 5th each year we burn effigies of a Spanish catholic and set off fireworks to celebrate - I'm sure it don't look to great to any visiting Spaniards.

I do think roker overreacted a bit though - live and let live that's my motto.

Arch

archambaut wrote:a Spanish catholic

Didn't think guy fawkes was spanish.

HasAnyoneSeenMyPipe wrote:

archambaut wrote:a Spanish catholic

Didn't think guy fawkes was spanish.

i thought he was english,defo not irish or parliament would,ve been blown sky high

HasAnyoneSeenMyPipe wrote:

archambaut wrote:a Spanish catholic

Didn't think guy fawkes was spanish.

Doh - you are right, he was English, but fought for the Spanish
He was definitely a catholic though

Arch

Ya he was English. @gixxer, lol yeah them bloody Irish are always blowing shit up.

please excuse my ignorance....

i know this is based on a tradition....but is the tradition based on racist values? it doesnt offend me personally but i could just imagine this sort of thing in england, espeically london where i live....it would be mayhem....

but this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2H6SXaWxuo...i understand is a pisstake....but it gives me the impression of black slaves....

This is the roots of the tradition. Most Dutch people want to 'brush' over these issues, but it does offend enough people here that there is a campaign against it. The children are told Peter is black from going up and down the chimneys, not that he is from African descent. Lazy Sint is all I've got to say!

so now thats settled can we all be good children or you won't get any christmas presents