Amsterdam Coffeeshop Directory Forums

jerelo wrote:

Taylor wrote:\It annoys me when I walked around that there were some english stereotypical 'chavs' running around making noise and terrorizing the locals.

Wow, totally new cultural reference here, to chavs. A quick trip to wikipedia shows chavs refer to youth, typically confrontational and power tripping. Seemed like the term 'lout' from my North American culture. Anyway, I guess these were local Dutch people, right, who represent a kind of cultural group. And you're saying that they were 'terrorizing' the local tolerant dutch people. I just imagine them like a sort of right wing thugish group, and fortunately they never bothered you (even though you were high). Hmm...

I mean, it seems at least possible that there would be groups in Dutch society that speak out against marijuana use. I've certainly heard people in North America trash marijuana users as out of fashion, and I can imagine people wanting to push back against marijuana's acceptance.

Not Dutch, chavs are a British phenomenom. Amsterdam is popular among these types for stag parties and 'lads' holidays because of the red light district. Probably the UK's worst export.

Yeah, British chavs who think the sun shines out of their asses!

HighTree wrote: Not Dutch, chavs are a British phenomenom. Amsterdam is popular among these types for stag parties and 'lads' holidays because of the red light district. Probably the UK's worst export.

Thanks for clarifying, got it. And I guess a few chavs get stoned (probably more likely drunk), and piss off locals.

After feeling a little sting about my ignorance, I made a virtual trip, by hanging out with a webcam stream, at http://www.terena.org/webcam/ from downtown Amsterdam, and you can hear the street sounds clearly. I could hear some groups of loud young men, pretty drunk I think, amid a street scene that just carries on, on their way. So I can imagine the general people feel minimally tolerant to the chavs.

But in terms of the general population, in their response to peaceful high people, my interest is just increasing. Here's another pre-visit imagination after reading about the countryside with its smaller cofeehouses, and the weed pass issue. I imagine a local might say "it's ok for the locals who like it, but the foreign crowd it attracts can be a problem"

Or, maybe it's less of an issue than I, as a North American, would imagine it to be. After all, I read that the Dutch rate of marijuana use is far lower than in North America, precisely because of the tolerance.

Local's are easily annoyed by tourists regardless of the circumstances. I was in Florida for 3 years, and every had various complaints about the snow birds, spring breakers, and what have you. Amsterdam is no different. We are all human, and can be easily annoyed by others not like us. Don't let the idea of being high in the most cannabis tolerant place bother you.

The "rowdy UK all-male groups" are easily the odd group out. I used them to my advantage though. So there I was standing near the counter @ HGF when a group of 5-8 males walk in loud, obnoxious, rude, and pushy. They kinda thought they could just jump in line, began asking what was good, what was the best, and things of that nature. As they (loudly) looked over the menu I leaned over to the girl and politly asked for a gram of SSH. Got a very pretty bud, no shake. Why? Maybe its because she is a great budtender? Maybe she was just thankful I wasn't so loud, rude, and hooked me up? I'll never know.

Oh the group of UK fellows? They walked out without buying a damn thing because I think they thought maybe she was rude? This IMO is a perfect example of a case when bud-tender not being 100% friendly is warranted. The bud @ HGF is good enough to sell itself. On the other hand my CS Anday experience was just the opposite. Walk in, places is empty, ask for juice to get me started. I just wanted a smaller quiet CS to hang out in for a while. Instead of being polite and accommodating he was pushy, and made me feel unwanted. So instead of hanging out and relaxing, and buying who knows what. I smoked what I had, drank my drink, and back on the street I went. Very lame.

You will do fine. Just don't act too stupid. lol How old are you if I may ask? I'm early 40s from US south/midwest and it definitely different from St. Louis or Memphis. lol I was high the whole time - no problems. I alway wear sunglasses anyway so no one could see my eyes on the street. We would generally visit a coffee shop then a museum and I never had any issues. We never smoked outside of coffee shops or the hotel - didn't need to since we just smoked. lol Remember you're in a tourist area so a lot of the people around you aren't from there as well. One thing that surprised me when it happened was you have to pay to use the restroom (in some places) and once when a cleaning sign was in the doorway the lady cleaning told me to come on in and continued cleaning the restroom while I was pissing (happened twice I believe). Take everything in and enjoy. Also, use the trams, but learn as much as you can about them before you go and get a map of public transport when there.

Nice and reassuring, thanks. I've never considered sun glasses, but sure, why not, just in case. Going to galleries high sounds like my plan too.

And re age, 53. Familiar with San Fransisco Portland and Vancouver's West Coast cultural norms - also relatively relaxed with it - so I also expect I'll do fine. But I do get the sense people are responding as though its about me being worried about it - more so than I feel I am. In some ways I think my interest is more sociological. Like, if locals tolerate, what does that toleration look like. And if there are pockets of intolerance, how does that show up.

It's curious to me that the cofeeshop is the container for getting high, and outside that, there are relatively few other places that really claim that their spaces are for use of weed. Like, wouldn't it be great if you could have smoking and use sanctioned, when going to dances, nature walks, in galleries, and so on. It's a funny cognitive dissonance "we tolerate here, not so elsewhere". An exagerated high contrast example, yes, but I'm trying to express why this interests me.

But it is sanctioned in some unusual spaces, like marijuana research at the university.

jerelo wrote:It's a funny cognitive dissonance "we tolerate here, not so elsewhere". An exagerated high contrast example, yes, but I'm trying to express why this interests me.

the point about dutch tolerance is that it is real but it is also local

local people are given the option to say which activities they will allow in their area ... if the local residents of an area don't mind coffeeshops or red light districts then they will allow them to open up, if the local residents don't want coffeeshops or rlds then they don't give their permission for them

the model of dutch tolerance is that local areas are provided for activities ... if you want to participate in an activity you go to the area which provides facilities for that activity, conversely if you don't want to particpate or observe an activity then you know there will be local areas where you can go and avoid it

it is not somewhere where anything goes wherever you are ... different people lead different lives in different places ... overall it adds up to a tolerant society

I hope you really enjoy your visit, I'm sure you will, and I look forward to reading your thoughts and observations later. As you are going in a weeks time you will be able also to enjoy the late summer, early autumn colours in the trees and parks. If the weather is as it has been for the last couple of weeks, nice bright days and a bit chilly mornings and evenings it will be a trip to remember.

Happy trails

Jerelo, the Dutch largely do not think so deeply about weed. Its simply not part of the lives of (my personal estimate) of 80% of the public, more like 90% if you exclude people in their 20s. Beyond the coffeeshop world, there is no huge cannabis 'scene', no one talks about it, or even cares about it. Really, the Dutch I have worked with look at weed as a real drug, and they are generally neutral or slightly disdainful of weed smokers.

Of course, you will see very little of this if you just visit Amsterdam's central city. There, it appears that the Dutch appreciate cannabis much more than in the 'reality' of the rest of the country.

I would add that most Dutch would not lose too much sleep if the coffeeshops were closed because many do not appreciate that Netherlands has become a haven for 'drug tourists'. This is a very conservative society, by and large. Tolerance has almost always been supported by reasons of stability or financial gain, not simply because the Dutch are open-minded.

Had the same experience in Florida and AnyDay CS..

Used to live in Florida 50 Years.. Now I live here!

tutti

redeyezman wrote:Local's are easily annoyed by tourists regardless of the circumstances. I was in Florida for 3 years, and every had various complaints about the snow birds, spring breakers, and what have you. Amsterdam is no different. We are all human, and can be easily annoyed by others not like us. Don't let the idea of being high in the most cannabis tolerant place bother you.

The "rowdy UK all-male groups" are easily the odd group out. I used them to my advantage though. So there I was standing near the counter @ HGF when a group of 5-8 males walk in loud, obnoxious, rude, and pushy. They kinda thought they could just jump in line, began asking what was good, what was the best, and things of that nature. As they (loudly) looked over the menu I leaned over to the girl and politly asked for a gram of SSH. Got a very pretty bud, no shake. Why? Maybe its because she is a great budtender? Maybe she was just thankful I wasn't so loud, rude, and hooked me up? I'll never know.

Oh the group of UK fellows? They walked out without buying a damn thing because I think they thought maybe she was rude? This IMO is a perfect example of a case when bud-tender not being 100% friendly is warranted. The bud @ HGF is good enough to sell itself. On the other hand my CS Anday experience was just the opposite. Walk in, places is empty, ask for juice to get me started. I just wanted a smaller quiet CS to hang out in for a while. Instead of being polite and accommodating he was pushy, and made me feel unwanted. So instead of hanging out and relaxing, and buying who knows what. I smoked what I had, drank my drink, and back on the street I went. Very lame.

I'm getting a picture of the landscape - tolerance in local communities, surrounded by communities that tolerate other things, and not that.

It's a new concept for me in some ways. North American concepts seem to me to say that we all (in a country) live under the same laws, and you don't get exceptions for local community in terms of marijuana practices. (In NA, we do practice temporal exceptions, like when the vast majority of people at a large event use marijuana openly, and suddenly the rules of the background society are flipped for a few hours. And also now we have some medical based exceptions in compassion clubs, but still no legally sound consumer options.)

Most people reading here are interested in the coffeeshop community, with it's favored status as a place where you can be high openly and freely. But that community is surrounded by the larger conservative and, at least on the issue of marijuana consumption, intolerant community. So, as an innocent traveller, when I move across the boundary into an intolerant area, I could possibly have a bad suprise. It's not that I'm worried about this, because I think I will try to notice this and adjust. And if I do get worried about it, I'll just pop back into the tolerant area. Safe and sound in the coffee shop. Suddenly the freedom of the coffeeshop (or Centrum) has become a protective container - like a shell.

/\/\ It's all cool if you are man .

My modest experience in the Netherlands: the further out you go from the Dam, the more likely you might run into some disdain - nothing too overt, mostly "looks" brought on by the aroma of our prior indulgences. First trip (1998) we stayed in Haarlem in a B&B (no smoking of course at the lodging) and we saw most of the country. At least one coffeeshop in Haarlem refused our business, I guess because we were tourists (40ish at the time) - or because we were 300+ pounders (another story there) and maybe they thought we'd break their chairs! We didn't feel very comfortable toking out in public in the countryside, mostly due to the same factors mentioned in your post. Our subsequent trips just got mellower and mellower - except our first cannabis cup which was a stress to sample all the entries believing our vote actually made a difference! You'll be fine as long as you're polite, avoid drunks on the weekend, and don't do anything really stupid like act out as "the ugly american". Oh yeah and don't forget to take your hat off when you go inside - some of the shops, bars and cafes are kinda picky about that

ganjoa

Being high in public? As long as you don't do anything stupid, it's about as tolerant as you can get. If you're smoking outside, the cops might tell you to put it out if you're unlucky. Just being stoned, what do you possibly have to be afraid of? The kind of stupid shit, behaviourally speaking, that will get you into trouble with the police is more closely linked with alcohol and other drugs than cannabis in my opinion. You're allowed to smoke it in a coffeeshop, so you're allowed to be stoned in the streets. The people of Amsterdam see tons of it every day. In my experience, they seem to be quite ready to wait for stoned foreigners to take their time with choosing their order in establishments, for example, and they dismiss any fear of being judged with a quick laugh and smile. If I've ever been rushed, it's probably because I've actually been one of those stereotypical stoner film idiots who stares into the ice cream tubs for 15 minutes, seeing which one will call out to be eaten. And in general, I think you need to be really fucking toasted if you're even thinking about the general public in the street paying attention to or being bothered by your stonedness.

Up here in the North, people roll joints pretty readily in public and smoke them as well. The police have been known to hand out fines on very rare occasions, and usually just tell people to put out the joints, but sometimes they visibly overlook situations they could have dealt with, which I think is commendable behaviour. The people here, although they may dislike it, seem to tolerate it as long as it's out of their faces. Go somewhere off to the side to smoke, like the bank of a quieter canal or a park, and nobody will be bothered or take any notice.