LED lighting

[spidergawd]

/\ /\ Yes diminishing intensity is the thing with a fixed light on a plant. I haven't grown enough yet to feel ok with pruning and making a flat grow with a grill to support the stems but I reckon I'll try that next.

[redeyezman]

If you're going to get LED make sure the LED chips are produced by Cree. Those China made shit dont hold a candle to what's being made in Cree plant, USA.



EDIT:
Quality products for sale can be found at http://www.advancedledlights.com/

Sure....China made shit can produce the correct PAR wavelengths, but how intense is it? Remember, energy is transferred, not lost. Do you want it transferred to intense wavelengths, or transferred to heat, because your inefficient shit was made in China...The LED saga continues....

[treetop]

n/t

[gixxer]

TT save ur money chum,,,,,all leds r shit

[Uncle Ron]

What we're after is the right spectrum for growing, my experience with an admittedly fairly cheap unit, was that it vegged well but needed a somewhat different spectrum for the flowering. I see some of the more advanced units are adjustable.

Spectrum or light intensity?

It's true that plants grow better with more blue spectrum at the vegging stage and more red/orange spectrum in the flowering stage but the major difference is the amount of light intensity required. Flowering plants need significantly more light intensity to flower than to produce vegetative growth. Add in that light intensity diminishes according to the inverse square law (the further it has to travel the less intense it becomes) and the higher height of flowering plants, causing the light to have to travrl further and that's probably what's causing you the problems.

From memory (I don't have the figures to hand) flowering plants need about 4-5 times the light intensity to flower compared to vegging plants which is the primary reason many people have traditionally vegged with fluorescents and flowered with HIDs.

Yes spectrum is important, but in flowering light intensity is the key.

+1... however...
Spectrum and intensity are both key, however IMHO spectrum (PAR) is always more important.
Try flowering using a spectrum in the 450-550 range (Metal Halide) with 45,000 lumen. I'm not even sure if the plants would fully flower in that spectrum. However, growers who use CFLs designed for flowering with lumen in the 7000-12000 range would most likely produce a greater yield than if using the wrong spectrum, regardless of how much lumen. Just my opinion...

PAR, Lumen, and Lux combined... don't let the "lumens are for humans" crowd confuse the issue, they are misinformed.
A little light reading perhaps? http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-growi ... -they.html
I won't waste resources using an LED indoors, HPS kicks its ass, however as a supplement in a greenhouse grow, perhaps...
Happy farming...

[redeyezman]

The science is important. So is the technology producing the required light one needs. I should mention I am only looking at LEDs for vegging, not blooming because obviously there is lots of marketing ploys, and misleading info. So many are saying "look we make the right spectrums for growing! this will kick ass" okay... but how intense is it? If you can get legit PAR intensity for vegging indoors its a start. Less is needed for vegging than blooming is my understanding.

I'm not trying to get into debate over LED vs HID/MH, but rather trying to understand... Okay, what's really gonna be needed to make this happen? The only kind of change people like is the kind in their pocket, I get that. Technology changes tho, usually for the better. I'm just keeping an open mind, learning, and reading.

[Uncle Ron]

Hey REM, a debate is a healthy thing, when done with respect (as in respecting other peoples opinion/no name calling/etc...).
LEDs have made great strides in the last decade or so, closing the gap with High Intensity Discharge (HID) lamps.
As was mentioned, they lack the intensity of HIDs, especially HPS for flowering.
LEDs still have a long way to go... they still can't match the yield of an HPS, and from what I've been reading, about 50% of HPS yield.
My greatest yield using a 400w MH/HPS system was just under 400 grams in an area less than 120sq cm (4' x 4' x 6.5'H ); with the 600w system, approximately 600 grams (actually 543 without counting samples and giveaway). Hopefully I'll have greater yields (+30%) as I learn to train plants more effectively. At the moment, LEDs can't touch these yields...
...and then there's the cost, which is beyond ridiculous, they are downright stupid. I've priced LED systems in the thousands of $$$, why? Novelty perhaps, can't think of any other reason, especially when there are systems available at 1/10th of the cost and provide greater yields.
Lastly, want to know the difference between a 600w LED and a 600w HPS? About $1,000 in cost, that's it... oh, and lower temperatures. I do realize that most 600w LEDs have an output supposedly equal to a 1000w HPS, but seriously, no, the yields simply are not there, yet.
Vegetation is a completely different story... the LEDs seem to be holding their own, but then there's the ever lingering cost factor. The $$$ spent still doesn't match the output of HIDs.
Happy farming...
...

[treetop]

Hey REM, a debate is a healthy thing, when done with respect (as in respecting other peoples opinion/no name calling/etc...).
LEDs have made great strides in the last decade or so, closing the gap with High Intensity Discharge (HID) lamps.
As was mentioned, they lack the intensity of HIDs, especially HPS for flowering.
LEDs still have a long way to go... they still can't match the yield of an HPS, and from what I've been reading, about 50% of HPS yield.
My greatest yield using a 400w MH/HPS system was just under 400 grams in an area less than 120sq cm (4' x 4' x 6.5'H ); with the 600w system, approximately 600 grams (actually 543 without counting samples and giveaway). Hopefully I'll have greater yields (+30%) as I learn to train plants more effectively. At the moment, LEDs can't touch these yields...
...and then there's the cost, which is beyond ridiculous, they are downright stupid. I've priced LED systems in the thousands of $$$, why? Novelty perhaps, can't think of any other reason, especially when there are systems available at 1/10th of the cost and provide greater yields.
Lastly, want to know the difference between a 600w LED and a 600w HPS? About $1,000 in cost, that's it... oh, and lower temperatures. I do realize that most 600w LEDs have an output supposedly equal to a 1000w HPS, but seriously, no, the yields simply are not there, yet.
Vegetation is a completely different story... the LEDs seem to be holding their own, but then there's the ever lingering cost factor. The $$$ spent still doesn't match the output of HIDs.
Happy farming...
...

The cost factor upfront may be higher but over time in saved energy bills it is supposed to make LED's cheaper to grow with in the very long run.

[Uncle Ron]

The cost factor upfront may be higher but over time in saved energy bills it is supposed to make LED's cheaper to grow with in the very long run.

Supposedly a 400w LED is equivalent to a 600w HPS, an energy savings of 200w per hour, 2,400 watts during a 12 hour flowering cycle. Currently I'm paying about 0.20 cents per kilo watt, so the savings could be 0.44 cents per day/about 25 Euros during 60 days of flowering. If my savings per flowering crop would be 25 Euros, and the difference between the cost of the LED and HPS is approximately $800, I would need to grow 32 crops (about 5-6 years) before I reach a break even point. However, let us not forget yield during this period, in which the HPS will most likely outperform the LED by 50% or more.
So I ask, where is the savings, right now or even in the foreseeable future? IMHO, there isn't any...
Let the debate continue...
...

[USbongLord]

debate what?..led is shit for growing....just fuckin stupid...wait..lemme light a candle....

[redeyezman]

Does Yankee candle make a weed scent? I'm learning more every week. Hard to argue with results tho. I should burn one to remind myself I suppose. The PAR intensity has to become viable eventually. Maybe duplicating the sun just not something we'll be capable of despite all the other technologies that seem so advanced. The Internet is more elegant than complex to me... Maybe I should view sunlight as the same. Perception

[Uncle Ron]

Does Yankee candle make a weed scent? I'm learning more every week. Hard to argue with results tho. I should burn one to remind myself I suppose. The PAR intensity has to become viable eventually. Maybe duplicating the sun just not something we'll be capable of despite all the other technologies that seem so advanced. The Internet is more elegant than complex to me... Maybe I should view sunlight as the same. Perception

Shhh, keep that to yourself... potential income...
Throwing more into the mix, what about using a combination of HIDs and LEDs, or one supplementing the other or the sun?
Back to you Chet...
Happy farming...
...

[redeyezman]

After watching the first 4 (will watch all) at Khan Acadamy on photosynthesis I realized something.... Light=Photons... HPS/MH are exploding gas in a vacuum....just like....the sun! haha...diodes emiting light....well they aren't that...

I realize people are getting results from LED, and they need to do what works for them....the best is what works for me...suppose ill move along now i might have the longest possible planning phase ever...lol