2 different takes on germination, DJ Short and Tom Hill

[EasilySuede]

FYI...

From DJ Short

My preferred sprout method is as follows: Seeds are soaked in distilled water for 6 to 18 hours, seeds are then transferred to 5 or 6 stacked sheets of white (non-printed) paper towel, folded twice (to about 5” sq. or 13 cm. sq.), soaked with distilled water. Folded paper towel containing seed is placed on a clean (sterile) plate or pan, preferably glass or glaze, and put in a warm, dark place—top of the fridge works good. Keep the paper towel moist but not too soaked, dripping but not in a puddle. Most sprouts appear within 48 hours, a few take up to one week or more. Some people prefer to plant at the first sign of sprouting, others prefer to wait until the taproot is elongated. Both ways have their advantages and disadvantages and are therefore a matter of preference. If a longer time is spent in the paper towel, the paper towel should be changed every several days. The main focus is cleanliness—sterility, throughout the process.

Note that some seed have stubborn casings, especially when the taproot is planted and the shell casing covering the cotyledon is allowed to dry before sloughing off. The cotyledon will wither and die of strangulation unless the casing, and a cellulous sheath are ‘surgically’ removed (i.e. removed with surgical precision and sterility). Keeping the seedling, and its casing, sufficiently moist helps to avoid this problem. Scuffing seeds (exposing the seam on the seed to an abrasive ‘scuffing’ usually with sandpaper or an emery board), or ‘popping’ seeds (gently squeezing the seed ‘popping’ the seam open) will also facilitate sprouting and hasten sprout time. Again, special attention needs to be given to cleanliness and the sterility of the sprout area and process.

While on the subject, the general ‘guarantee’ in the current seed market (in California) is as follows: Out of a ten-pack of seeds, eight would be guaranteed to sprout. Of the eight that sprout, four should be female and four male and due to the law-of-odds ratios vary. Out of the ones that sprout, two female (and two male) should equal or exceed the strain description, again given the law of odds. So in other words, 40% of the plants from the seeds (really 50% given a 100% sprout rate) should equal or surpass the strain description. Ideally, one or all of the desirable parent plants are kept alive via clone copies or re-greening. These copies are capable of providing a lifetime of very satisfying medicine.

The small amount of variation in the strain was intentionally left to allow the end user the opportunity to explore and experiment. Full stabilization of one or two specific traits is possible via two further forward filial crosses. However, crossing beyond two further generations will acclimate most phenotype toward the current (usually indoor) environment and be more distant from its unique landrace origins. Remember: Most of the DJ Short lines are guaranteed f5’s from true region-of-origin landrace P1’s.

Regarding seed-sprout ratios, all of the DJ Short products go through rigorous testing before being sent to market. Wholesale sprout tests are done every six months to insure at least a 95% (most often 100%) sprout rate. Similar sprout tests are performed by some of the resale distributors with (hopefully) the same success rates. There was an issue with a batch of ‘Grape Krush’ that I’ve heard Chimera provided &/or replaced and hopefully that issue has been resolved. I am not yet aware of the full details. Perhaps Chimera would ‘chime’ in on this one?

Part of certain complaints regarding sprout rates may have to do more with climate conditions (heat) during transport and/or storage; live seeds hate excessive heat (>100-110 degrees F) especially for any extended periods of time. In route heat issues are not that uncommon, it’s simple as leaving the seeds in a sealed car on a sunny day. At any rate, this is my observation/advice regarding certain sprout rate issues—avoid excessive heat!


From Tom Hill

I plant seed directly in soil.

A lot of this has to do with me not being able to imagine dealing/transferring large numbers of wet/sprouted seed into soil after germination. I also feel it is important to keep Oxygen levels up throughout the process, and that soil is more forgiving in regards to pH buffering etc. Folks can sprout seed in any way they choose, but I'd just like to remind them to give some effort to preparing well for it, as apposed to wetting seed out and stuffing them in a drawer etc.

My tools for sprouting seed are: 1) flats filled with a seed starting mix or a sifted soil mix to remove clods or large chunks of perlite etc. 2) a fine spray water wand 3) chopsticks 4) squirt bottle 5) a previously set-up and monitored thermostat controlled room set to 82-85F.

first I fill trays with soil and take my time wetting them out, usually 3 times over lightly with a fine wand works (gardena soft spray watering wand is a good one for this). I take my time, and try not to screw up the tilth of the soil- I want Oxygen levels up. Then with a chopstick (or similar) I make my holes, very shallow, quarter inch (half cm) max. drop seed in, pinch closed, then once more over lightly with the squirt bottle (so as not to float seeds back out) "marrying" moist soil to the seed. Then off to the previously prepared room.

Probably, the most important part of the equation is that previously prepared room. In my experience, maximum germination ratios are reached at or around 85F (-30c). Once that seed is moist, the clock is ticking, and the longer we take to get them up after that, the lower the germination ratio. Also, don't give up. Many times I have emptied flats after I thought I had all that was coming up, up, only to experience a new flush of germination (suspiciously, always right around the full moon) a week or two later.

[Uncle Ron]

Thanks for the post EasilySuede...

I've done similar to both methods with basically equal results although my technique resembles more Tom Hill's than DJ Short.

DJ Short method:
More labor intensive; Additional transplanting (which could lead to problems in and of itself); "Popping" the seeds? - I can see many, MANY trashed seeds in the hands of novices; Distilled water? I bet saliva will germinate a seed, any takers? Think it through, what does a seed need to germinate? Hint - warmth, moisture, and oxygen.

Tom Hill method:
Less labor intensive although germinating in flats will eventually lead to transplanting to larger container, no?; pH buffering during germination? See comment about saliva.

As mentioned, keys to successful germination are keeping the seeds warm, moist, and oxygenated.
My take on the first step to a happy harvest (grown in soil):
- Check the seeds to ensure they are viable. Appearance isn't everything, but just about.
- Scuff the seeds (or not) so that moisture more easily penetrates the outer shell.
- Prior to planting, the soil is lightly moistened (if necessary). Keep soil moist (not damp or wet) throughout the process, using a spray bottle or similar.
- Plant seed, pointed end down, no more than 0.25in/0.75cm deep. Use whatever is handy to make a small hole. Lightly cover the seed with soil.
Pros - Little effort; No transplanting; No additional equipment needed.
Cons - Not feasible for large/commercial grows.

Using the above I've had a better than 90% germination rate. Can't say for sure that the <10% was because of the method or genetics or whatever...

Above all else, be a happy farmer...

[EasilySuede]

Thanks, excellent response. I threw those guys' techniques up for discussional purposes- to get others' take on the process.

Right now I'm at a local pub havin' a Guin on the way home from buying a gallon of distilled water (cost all of 9/10s of a dollar) and fine sandpaper.

[EasilySuede]

Took my six Lucky7/UFO fem-autos that came with my 'tude orders and thought I'd give the paper towel method a go- focusing on cleanliness, temperature and oxygenation.

Volunteers for the mad science include: 3x Kannabia Hobbit, 2x Dinafem Critical+, 1x G13 Labs Auto AK.

Here's the skinny:

1. Took a single sheet of fine sandpaper and gathered up the four corners like so...



...and rolled the seed(s) around in there for a few minutes until they lost some of their shine; like my reputation.

2. Set up a dark temp-controlled environment using a Hydrofarm heating pad and digi. thermostat set for 82F/28C. No germination box or cover.
edit: Ambient room temp. was a thermostat-controlled 70F/21C.

3. Placed three flat container lids, like the one in the photo below, directly on the pad. Took some store-bought distilled water, shook it vigorously to oxygenate, and filled the lids (doesn't take much) and waited for temps to reach the target.

NOTE 1: While the water is shallow, it is deep enough for a seed to submerge completely when ready to, and stands a better chance of staying oxygenated with all that surface area relative to depth.

NOTE 2: Because the lids are so shallow, they basically mirror the temp of the heating pad, so no box or cover was needing to maintain temp. No cover also meant more oxygen.

4. Put seeds into their respective strain lids at 1800 Wednesday. All had submerged by 0700 the next day, Thursday.

5. Took a single sheet of non-printed paper towel, folded over enough times so that it would fit in the lid pictured.

6. Mildly soaked it with shaken/oxygenated distilled water and placed on pad. Allowed temps to reach target.

7. Put seeds into paper towel at 1200 Thursday. Besides sinking, there had been no other sign of development at this point.

8. By 0900 Friday, today, they appeared as below...


columns, l to r: Hobbit, Critical+, Auto AK

I thought the process went pretty quickly, though not sure how much is due to my technique vs. the (auto)genetics. They're now potted, and will begin flowering out when the rest of the gang does- in about a week.

cheers

[Uncle Ron]

I thought the process went pretty quickly, though not sure how much is due to my technique vs. the (auto)genetics. They're now potted, and will begin flowering out when the rest of the gang does- in about a week.
cheers

Congratulations, 100% germination.
My opinion, the process went smoothly (quickly) because of the technique, mother nature, and you paying attention to details and doing it correctly. Two green thumbs up! Simply too easy.

Happy farming...

[treetop]

Good germination rate there. I use a similar method minus the sandpaper although might try that now!

[EasilySuede]

Here's an update of the automatic ladies at 5.75 days from seed, and almost four days from being potted...


Hobbit, Critical+, AutoAK
Hopefully folks who got these freebies from the 'tude now have a sense of their germination capabilities.


BTW, I modify all sizes of my hard-sided pots by cutting more holes on the bottom/sides to allow better drainage,
and to provide the flexibility of just placing the pot directly onto another, smarter, pot...


left is original pot

cheers

[Boner]

Looking good, if you haven't grown autos before this is worth a read: http://www.bigbuddhaseeds.com/Big-Buddh ... uddha.html

I have posted before but a lot people treat them like regular beans and complain about the low yield.

[EasilySuede]

Looking good, if you haven't grown autos before this is worth a read: http://www.bigbuddhaseeds.com/Big-Buddh ... uddha.html

I have posted before but a lot people treat them like regular beans and complain about the low yield.

Yet another great piece of info, thanks again B.

[Panog]

Looking good, if you haven't grown autos before this is worth a read: http://www.bigbuddhaseeds.com/Big-Buddh ... uddha.html

I have posted before but a lot people treat them like regular beans and complain about the low yield.

Just grew autos for the first time indoor and got about 70g/plant, dried and trimmed... I just followed your link

[Cisco]

What strains did you go for Panog mate ? There are a lot more interesting Autos out just now , Sweet Seeds have just released another 4/5 new autos........ Mmmmm maybe need to get an auto grow on the go ?!

[Boner]

What strains did you go for Panog mate ? There are a lot more interesting Autos out just now , Sweet Seeds have just released another 4/5 new autos........ Mmmmm maybe need to get an auto grow on the go ?!

Have a look at the Ogre from SGS: http://www.seedbay.com/index.php?a=2&b=62610 < if you're not a memeber of seedbay here's the description.

OGRE is the largest Auto-Flowering strain in the SGS Collection. It is a sativa dominant cross of Secret Citrus x Durban Skunk. OGRE shows a unique accelerated growth pattern not seen in Auto-Flowering strains, this allows OGRE to get very large, averaging 1m+ tall and wide. With a prolific branching system OGRE produces very large yields with over sized aromatic buds. The amount of growth and yields produced in so little time makes OGRE one of the fastest high yielding plants in the world. Indoor in soil plants require 1 gallon pots to start, sex will show between Day17-21, transplant to 3-5 gallons until harvest, 70-77 Days from seed. Outdoor start plants outside in a greenhouse or similar in 2 gallon pots, after sexing transplant into 5+gallon pots or directly into prepared soil beds, harvest 75-80Days. Seed to Harvest: Indoor 70-77 Days Outdoor 75-80 Days Height: 1+m Indoor 1- 1.5+m Outdoor

and just for good measure their ICMAg forum:

http://www.icmag.com/ic/forumdisplay.php?f=65720

[Panog]

What strains did you go for Panog mate ? There are a lot more interesting Autos out just now , Sweet Seeds have just released another 4/5 new autos........ Mmmmm maybe need to get an auto grow on the go ?!

1 afghan Kush Ryder (world of seeds), not the prettiest buds in the world but a strong taste of afghan hash and spice and a couchlocking stone
1 Critical jack auto (dinafem), fat dense buds, spicy mango taste, got it as a freebie from attitude, I think they dont sell it
2 Cream caramel auto (sweet seeds), ultra compact buds, havent smoked any yet

[Cisco]

To mad you had a sweet on the go be interested how that is Iv done the photoperiod Cream Caramel and it's fookin dee-lish

[Panog]

Well I'm smoking some right now, it hasnt cured yet but the taste is nice, can't wait for the curing to finish