Dutch General Elections - Sept. 12, 2012 (updated poll)

[piedpiperofvice]

ok marco..your first point about raising money for coffeeshops being possibly illegal is interesting and something i did not fully consider. if it truly would be illegal i have to believe there is a way around that. perhaps frame the fundraiser as something that would fit under the law. a foundation to buy real estate in amsterdam can be established . is it legal to buy real estate and rent it out to coffeeshops? if you use the standard that it is not, it seems that a very wide sweeping possibly overly broad law is being evoked. we are not raising money to buy the business but just the real estate.can you be a building owner and rent to established businesses that run a technically illegal but tolerated business? if there is no way around law then establish the foundation in holland or aruba or jamaica. a web site can solicit donations from the worldwide stoner community. payments can be made in a way that bypasses the conventional banks etc. like cash or just sleight of hand. i myself have gambled on sporting events by sending money to aruba to fund my account. i know of some who have bought illegal synthetic drugs on the internet. still do. they manage to get around the resistance of the banks to process these just fine. never heard of him paying in any way but his credit card. is it legal to buy seeds for weed everywhere in the world . im sure not but they are purchased nonetheless.

[Smirks]

Regardless of the legalities, it's still a shit idea. Fundraise for coffeeshops? Ok how about next time you visit, offer to pay double for everything you buy from them? Wonder how many people would do that...and we're talking about people who are actually visiting there at the time. This mythical stoner community that wants to subsidise dealers in another country doesn't exist. Even if it did, most would never get round to it.

[piedpiperofvice]

as for the business realities of amsterdam. seems simple . if you have enough money you are allowed to buy property. if need be you can pay a bit above market price to entice some owners to sell. if they won't sell you can help pay the rent (again at a premium rate if needed to make the building owners consider the coffeeshops a more profitable tenant ). if the coffeeshops own the land already you can subsidize their business allowing them to remain solvent in an environment(wietpas) where they would normally would not be able. again, i think a worldwide fundraising effort targeting stoners in the developed world can raise enough way more money than you do apparently. im just thinking the number of sympathetic persons is large . very large. if you can gain a few euro average donation from just 20 percent the amount would be huge. how much is that building across from old church. 200 million euros. i doubt it. honestly is it 2 million euros more or less.


benefit concerts. is it crazy to think that bands/artists like lady gaga, beyonce, snoop, limp bizkit ,rhianna and the legion of other weed friendly bands might not put in a little time to play some benefit concerts. i mean i see pictures of them coming out of the coffeeshops on this web site from time to time. my guess is many would be thrilled to help. again, if some weak law was twisted to be construed as not allowing help for the coffeeshop owners and their marginalized employees then many places that have no such laws would surely welcome the concerts .


big time financiers like george soros are ,also, sympathetic to legalization efforts. many hollywood stars are ,also, legalization supporters. would they help with decent size donations. why would they not ? just to take a couple.bill maher and woody harrelson would seem to be easy marks for this sort of thing. hollywood seems to portray weed as it truly is. no big deal and accepted for the most part. they just ran a show for 8 seasons called weeds on hbo. references and depictions of marijuana use are standard boilerplate material in hollywood movies and shows. we have a friend there.

so i don't believe that we would only raise enough for one coffeeshop.


for fun let's say 60 million euros can be raised. 20 million stoners world wide 3 euros each. any large donations from the big boys,. and percentage of sales of concert tickets and resulting save the coffeeshops t shirts and other souvenirs.seems possible. so the strategy would be to keep the coffeeshop system in place by not allowing bankruptcy of the business thus the license . if only 50 are saved you would still have a nice network of coffeeshops still existing. yes, if the wietpas goes into affect tourists would not be allowed but the ultimate goal of opponents of stealing the coffeeshops footprint would be stonewalled. the loss of licenses would be stopped or mitigated.

now amsterdam is home to 50 coffeeshops that are not fully helping to feed surrounding businesses because they are essentially empty. not exactly what amsterdam chamber of commerce is looking for. amsterdam then may decide not to enforce the wietpas because they don't want economic dead zones in some of the prime locations in the city.the cops sure seem to not want to enforce it. let's give them an excuse. will amsterdam/netherlands make some law to set a minimum amt of revenue a coffeeshop must make to remain in existence. ok. we lose our licenses. however, i am sure some of the coffeeshops would be owned by the group and foundation now. they can be left empty ,made into museums to marijuana, some permanently made into shelters for the poor. you know ..shit that the chamber of commerce would fucking hate. at this point they would have to make some laws that would greatly erode property rights in the netherlands. are they willing to attack the rights of all dutch citizens to attack this situation? dont know, but it sure would be interesting to find out. the idea is to establish a hold on some prime real estate with the idea that the dutch or amsterdam have a choice. backtrack on the silly weed pass or enjoy some really fundamentally low revenue producing buildings...kind of like we put the buildings on strike..

[piedpiperofvice]

Regardless of the legalities, it's still a shit idea. Fundraise for coffeeshops? Ok how about next time you visit, offer to pay double for everything you buy from them? Wonder how many people would do that...and we're talking about people who are actually visiting there at the time. This mythical stoner community that wants to subsidise dealers in another country doesn't exist. Even if it did, most would never get round to it.

yes a few euros each from a community of stoners numbering in the hundreds of millions is the same as paying double for everything i buy from them..lets see 300 euros a trip double it to 600.. yes 300 is equal to 3 . can you be intellectually honest? i'll be out there sept 30 to oct 4 . smirks, if you are so impoverished that 3 euros is a price too high to fight for the cause of weed smokers to gain equal rights with drinkers then you can meet me at a coffeeshop of your choosing and i will buy you a bag. if stoners don't feel it is worth the fight then we get what we deserve.


just think of this as one of many battles raging in this fight. the us is moving in the right direction and the dam/levee is going to break pretty soon. in amsterdam it is going the wrong way. we should use our collective fiscal might to metaphorically bloody their nose. when we do not we cement our weakness and irrelevance . money kind of equals power if you are a minority(stoners) fighting for your rights. you aint gonna get the majority vote so you had better make yourself an effective thorn or you will be dismissed as having no ability to hurt the interest of the opposition.. way to man the barricades ,smirks

[burghclash]

If we are over with this absurd and useless off topic and mutual offences (sometimes i get the feeling this is a forum for crackheads and cocaine lovers LOL), grey area posted this on facebook

http://translate.google.nl/translate?hl ... ek-wietpas

oh btw, nothing against crack or cocaine, actually i love them cause they make my face like this --->

Won't open on my phone. What does it say?

[piedpiperofvice]

to paraphrase an idea expressed by many of those who have achieved great success (jim rogers being one).....if everyone is telling you that your idea is unworkable,impossible or wrong then you are usually on the right track..go ahead belittle me and then some of you titans of industry can tell men and women who became wildly successful and rich by following a previously "ridiculous idea" the folly of their ways.

[Smirks]

So deluded

[sensismiler]

I like you man.. YOu've seen a problem and you've put thought into a solution. It may not be THE solution but there's not many other people on here with any kind of fight for the cause in them. To some people it may be a 'shit' idea but I don't see many others being put out there. As has been said before, sitting back and letting the wietpass happen is exactly what the Dutch government want us to do..

Any resistance is good resistance

[piedpiperofvice]

marco, speaking of economic realities , i have read that the dutch have some or the highest mortgage burdens in the eu. surely, that would put some building owners in a position to seek a sale of their properties. i am not sure how many buildings that house coffeeshops share this burden ,obviously

[piedpiperofvice]

I like you man.. YOu've seen a problem and you've put thought into a solution. It may not be THE solution but there's not many other people on here with any kind of fight for the cause in them. To some people it may be a 'shit' idea but I don't see many others being put out there. As has been said before, sitting back and letting the wietpass happen is exactly what the Dutch government want us to do..

Any resistance is good resistance

i appreciate the simple consideration of my idea on the merits. and you are right it may not be the whole solution but it may be a part. thanks sensismiler

[Smirks]

I like you man.. YOu've seen a problem and you've put thought into a solution. It may not be THE solution but there's not many other people on here with any kind of fight for the cause in them. To some people it may be a 'shit' idea but I don't see many others being put out there. As has been said before, sitting back and letting the wietpass happen is exactly what the Dutch government want us to do..

Any resistance is good resistance

Actually we don't know what the Dutch government wants to do with it yet. We won't know that until a coalition is formally announced and they have formulated their policy regarding it. I think political pressure and consultation via industry heavyweights is a far better way to achieve a lasting solution than half baked ideas such as fundraisers to purchase real estate with no guarantee thar doing so would have any effect at all...and if you're prepared to pay double for something that's already vastly overpriced...anyway good luck with Weedaid, if you get any decent bands to play I might just come along.

And by the way, disagreeing with your approach doesn't mean I am either too tight or too skint to afford to buy my own smoke.

[piedpiperofvice]

So deluded

another well thought out, cogent, and informative addition to the debate courtesy of smirks...

[Smirks]

So deluded

another well thought out, cogent, and informative addition to the debate courtesy of smirks...

I'd rather donate to a more deserving cause such as finding cures for diseases, feeding hungry people, stopping war, etc.

[piedpiperofvice]

I like you man.. YOu've seen a problem and you've put thought into a solution. It may not be THE solution but there's not many other people on here with any kind of fight for the cause in them. To some people it may be a 'shit' idea but I don't see many others being put out there. As has been said before, sitting back and letting the wietpass happen is exactly what the Dutch government want us to do..

Any resistance is good resistance

Actually we don't know what the Dutch government wants to do with it yet. We won't know that until a coalition is formally announced and they have formulated their policy regarding it. I think political pressure and consultation via industry heavyweights is a far better way to achieve a lasting solution than half baked ideas such as fundraisers to purchase real estate with no guarantee thar doing so would have any effect at all...and if you're prepared to pay double for something that's already vastly overpriced...anyway good luck with Weedaid, if you get any decent bands to play I might just come along.

And by the way, disagreeing with your approach doesn't mean I am either too tight or too skint to afford to buy my own smoke.

i'm sorry if offended you,however, i can't really understand how 3 or 4 euros for a donation is something you would think unreasonable. i can't imagine that you are for the coffeeshops footprint being bought up and replaced with starbucks and other businesses already represented in spades. i assumed since you would agree that the coffeeshops should stay around that it must be an economic consideration. or i was trying to demonstrate how silly that particular objection was. it would ,also, help if like marco you actually demonstrated how it would be difficult or unworkable. so far you have just said it sucks with no justification and been a tad insulting in doing so.i am sorry, if the impoverished comment offended you. i retract it. and again what the heck is with this pay double shit. when did i say we should pay double for our weed. i'm talking a small donation of 3 or 4 euros from possibly 5 or ten percent of stoners in developed countries. ,money from concerts and souvenirs and bigger donations from some sympathetic fat cats.

[piedpiperofvice]

So deluded

another well thought out, cogent, and informative addition to the debate courtesy of smirks...

I'd rather donate to a more deserving cause such as finding cures for diseases, feeding hungry people, stopping war, etc.

fair enough but i'm sure you can take 3 dollars from one of the many causes that you would give to.. but fair enough. you don't find this a worthy fight or think that 3 euros is too much to risk for an idea that you don't think can work(although, we have not heard why)..i can accept that. that seems like an honest answer