For clarification my post here is also important perhaps should have put this link up here too,
https://www.coffeeshopdirect.com/forum/viewt ... 95#p397933. After that this post here popped up some days later
https://www.coffeeshopdirect.com/forum/viewt ... 87#p398087 and I thought I can subtly discuss things too instead of straight as usual(am aware that sometimes its better to be more careful than straight bringing something up but mostly I wonder if we‘re all relatively sensible adults or not?! ).
@KeyMonCha
Wouldn't call you a paranoiac or pessimist but a realist. Time will tell.
@Fat_old_dwarf
Just for the record never been there myself, read your review though. Certainly hope more dutch people get pissed about it. True, don't think police need to send out such troops.
@CopenhagenCouple
Don't know where to start so've to go afield: visiting coffeeshops since 1990s and claim to have seen a few things; though still no insider. Always found this backdoor issue suspective as am a questioning person myself anyway(Side note: if you seriously think through this sickening hypocrisy and the fact they get away with it then certainly everything is possible in this world, really insane. You can take lots of people for fools anytime, scary. No conspiracy theory as this is damn real. ).
I'm greatful it was way easier to test some good gear but with time it got worse. One thing important too is dutch goverment didn't have a problem turning an more or less blind eye on importing traditional gear from producing countries(talking about hash and grass like Thai, Jamaican, Columbian and so on). Then in the late eighties and early ninetees homegrowing became popular in the Netherlands(by the way lots of 'seedbanks' of today were just growers back then pretending to breed when it still was tolerated to grow lots as long as its for seed production. Two sources of income to be precise, a big one and one for pocket money. Go figure. Both businesses are mostly semi-professional, so laughable. Also see tirade here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30533&p=380811#p380811 ).
This is one thing among others having some impact on the whole thing as wiet slowly became more mainstream with increased demand.
Demand increased more and more and problems started more and more as well. At one point they stopped this seed production thing and lots of 'breeders' went to Spain or outsourced their 'company'.
At that point the Netherlands had a big illegal export of their Nederwiet, sort of Golden Era. Around 2005 there was a big impact on grass in general as after that grass was cut massively across Europe and it became a major problem(most coffeeshop wiet wasn't affected but in border areas they too sold such wiet as demand there is just immense(brixx/glass/spray). Either indeed supply shortage or ruthless subhumans'business practice. Probably both.
Sure it won't kill anybody but do harm nonetheless and its just contemptible. They got away with it though as there is no customer protection and all that.
During that time wiet became even more and more mainstream and this has to do with it, too.
Horrible shitholes like Checkpoint in Terneuzen(on average 2000 customers a day, go figure)and Roots/Oase(two coffeeshops owned by the same guy located at the outskirts)in Venlo in border areas made a shit load of money with selling subpar gear to what it seems mostly clueless or desperated belgian, german and french people; while a lot of very young customers caused much trouble with noise and stuff('overlast'). Definitely draw the attention of conservative dutchies.
Our circle of enthusiasts had already grown outdoor a lot and this atmosphere made it crystal clear to us to go independent from black markets weedwise; was already planned years before but there was a lack of opportunity. Some time later we made that happen and it changed just everything; still went to coffeeshops but still mostly only to check grades of hashish or having luck finding an okish example of a potential strain for the next grow.
When coffeeshop wiet was an inspiration it soon became more irrelevant as we left it behind quality wise, again no big deal as its not rocket science but simple gardening.
In 2010 quality at coffeeshops dropped and it got worse every year until today while prices went through the roof.
Even though many countries had set up their own illegal commercial grows to satisfy demand there was still enough demand regarding Nederwiet.
Also dutch politics went more conservative for some reasons and all this overlast led to more restrictions and thoughts about the Wietpas to ban foreigners, especially in border areas. Also police started to get mad hunting down local dutch grow operations what most probably only led again to higher prices and another lack of quality.
So yes I don't shed a tear when they're gone one day for something better to come. See, dutch mentality, historically speaking, is trading.
Dutch officials tend to say it's no big money from the coffeeshop business and I even agree with that compared to the other tourists attractions in the country but they won't go without that money either. They're quite pragmatic just look at this toleration bullshit.
This means money over everything and they'll most likely find a way keeping it up.
Though I think coffeeshops or what ever comes up next will be dutch only as too many dutch people in the provinces are pissed off by the average drug tourists.
As I said in the Green Place thread
https://www.coffeeshopdirect.com/forum/viewt ... 83#p397817 is a good start but taking a closer look this only would again mean tolerated bullshit. They just don't have the balls to legalize as bordering countries hassling them since ages due to their tolerance policy with coffeeshops and they want to trade. Background for not legalizing is mainly they're signed international anti-drug contracts and they just won't resign; they don't have the balls.
index.php
No priority at all; it is indeed true in the Netherlands less people consume compared to other countries(will get back to this later).
What ever even if they shut down completely they risk utter chaos(as parodied to some point in the Green Place thread linked above)as originally they wanted to regulate their own local market(will get back to this later).
Do you guys really think they would close down every shop if there would be a lot more shootings, it's way too obvious then - this is just highly unlikely as officials would lose their last bit of credibility, especially since this system is installed since the 1970s.
Though this doesn't mean they wouldn't find a more subtle way to close them down but all these shootings drawing too much attention, also you should consider no bank, supermarket, gas station or kiosk gets closed down forever after a robbery and this is quite a good point against closure.
If coffeeshops take those hypocrites to court and lose then I'm done with last bits of justice in this world.
Even when they go dutch only it's a step in the right direction. Other countries will follow suit.
Even in the Usa is happening a lot(even though as phoney as usual with their fake medical marijuana approach. Fuck your medical weed mostly just admit you want to get high on this drug it's no biggie; don't ridicule those minority of patients really in need with your spinelessness. But this double standard about drugs is a problem worldwide.)and once it gets legalized on federal level other bumsucking countries will do the same. It's not about medical marijuana or justice it's simply about money to fix their clapped-out economy for some time. Too in Spain, Canada and Portugal is happening something.
Atmosphere gets better it seems. So worldwide legalization movement will benefit.
As said before dutch coffeeshops are out of date. Yes, they were pioneers but time doesn't stand still and life is changing; also had lots of patience. Do I owe them something for letting me have access to good gear in the past? I don't think so, I even paid for it and this is what it is all about in our profit-orientated society, right?! I'm bored and sick of the current state, especially when thinking about very overpriced non-regulated quality and dubious groups making a profit.
My idea would be the professionalism of dispensaries in the Usa combined with the non-profit approach of spanish Social Clubs.
You were whining about many others don't live in countries with coffeeshops? Let me tell you something: Maastricht(similar problems like those shops mentioned above) sort of started that thing with the Wietpas. First almost all coffeeshops there united and tried to stop it as, what they were saying, it is discriminatory and they're right.
When all their sueing had no success they suddenly came up with 'Fight for your own legalization in your own country' and even though it‘s again hypocrite instead of just admitting they weren't successful at court it's still an good argument to some degree.
As said I know a bit about dutch culture and spoke to many locals over the years from all ages.
I can for sure tell you it's quite an grey area thing far from being accepted merely indeed tolerated. Personally I'm for acceptance instead of toleration. There is a major difference!
Especially generation born before 1970 isn't happy with it. Even for their offspring its similar. If you talk to random later generations a lot come up with 'Have been to a coffeeshop about one or two times in my life.' even when those ones sort of accept it the majority is a bit sick of being viewed as a pot nation. Again, Rotterdam or Amsterdam aren't Nederland. There are other areas as well. They'd laugh at you coming up with this.
Not saying I necessarily share their opinion as I can relate to both point of views somehow. Can only come up with platitudes myself, nonetheless they're too true: if you or others feel so sorry about this situation why don't you get off your backsides and support your local legalize movements instead of sitting at home in your self-satisfied stupor dreaming of enjoying legal gear? Nothing wrong with dreaming at all but it can turn to masochism at some point.
If going on holiday to the Netherlands is what you call supporting the legalize movement in your own country then this is a fine pillow and a good excuse for being a stereotype passive deadbeat.
Furthermore, it's quite simple if you risk too much when illegaly getting your gear then please stop. Is it really worth such trouble?
Are you a patient seriously in need so you have to do so?
Is your 'medicine' controlling you or vice versa? If so then a break is recommended. If you're not able too no biggie as well just look harder for a more safe option, security is priority!
What's next you give donations to coffeeshop owners so they can hire guards for their shops at night or do you accept higher prices because they have to hire them?
Pissing myself laughing. Don't be a grovelling obedient consumer to coffeeshop authority selling mostly sub-par gear to you.
Personally didn't do much for the legalize movement except for spreading the word and trying to talk to people. Seen a lot already and greatful, things to come are just bonus.
Even though currently don't have access to high grade homegrown I'll find a way to get it again but will take some time. Until then it's mid grade moroccan hash every now and then since I'm still only an occassional consumer it won't kill me.
So then these shootings come in handy as it draws attention, negative or positive isn't too important but it speeds up the lame discussion about backdoor policy and best thing is I can just watch and look what happens.
Yes, this is quite selfish too I know too well but I‘m in good company, right? Again times are changing at the minute around the world slowly but it‘s not looking too bad.
Hope one day I don't have to look for a new longterm connection every few years because they get busted or deteriorate due to too often self-destructive people not being able to have some sort of moderate longterm consumption apart from occassional overdoings.
Another important point is: as long as coffeeshops were mostly importing their gear it wasn't so much of a problem but now the war against drugs is at their own home(Nederwiet)now they have to deal it, also with those criminal structures supplying a mass market(sure they were enthusiasts involved in the beginning but it seems not many of them are still around these days). Also their approach in the 1970s tolerating coffeeshops was directed at a local crowd but some decades later you see this has gotten way out of hand with exports and drug tourism. That's why among other things this argument after the Wietpas from coffeeshops when they say you should care about your own legalization. Better late than never, huh? Another point their tolerating bullshit needs to be stopped for something better to come but as said it will most probably go dutch only. Hope dies last though. Because of me coffeeshops can go on existing but without this problematic backdoor issue(if it gets legalized it would probably mean no imports but I don't care as you can't have everything at the same time probably. More good hash on the black market; thinking positive!). While we're on it this thing I don't have to comment as its part of all been said, now even in Amsterdam
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=32842 - you see now it's nothing more than intermediate step at best. Get over it.
By the way you can say I gave up on fighting too but this is a bit too easy as it is no self-pity but realism(you guys still have all your memories, enjoy them. It was a fun time. Let's see what comes up next. You know again: life is changing it's not the end of the world.).
Am no black and white person myself so there isn't always direct resistance but things in between, so many ways to solve a problem. Oh life can be so conflicting, right? Most important thing though is voicing one's opinion(constructive critizm) as thoughts are the only thing some authorities can control fully yet, even when it's inconvenient to others but am aware it's an ungreatful job but I don't care(you can argue that it needs time but as pointed out here there already has been plenty of time without much positive happenings).
It's annoying to some I can understand but as said this is substantive here not just claiming something; feel free to ignore it. Couldn't stand the idea of acting like everything is fine with this coffeeshop thing as long as I can consume something; too ignorant. So I can sit here and comment things while the Netherlands have to solve it for themselves in the end.
Sure you can talk something to death if there is no action involved in the end but maybe it's indeed a point to start for me or others; wouldn't I really care at all I wouldn't spend at least some time with this topic. Sometimes provoking is the better option to address things instead of waffling about it in the same way again and again.
At least this is some sort of discussion here. If all things go wrong though there is still this option of going to the black market again(will find a way even if it takes time to get back to homegrown gear as have no access to at the minute as it's hard to go back when you have been there before. Commercial quality is sort of inacceptable to me no matter how fast you get used to things again; its so worth it as such a major difference sadly), personally will only give up enjoying this plant if I'd be seriously ill but for sure not when some authorities try to tell me to do so, fuck them. Time will tell again.
Last but not least here are some fine videos showing some guys from behind the scenes and another reason for eliminating black drug markets(major task):
Here what happened in Helmond I haven't been to since ages years ago :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEAucNOjf70
Robbery this year in Wolvega
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S84RKWKZlIg and in Breda some time back also(Pax de Boot):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g-QS9T-Fjo , enjoy.
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