Off-topic

[Rez]

Now if we can just eliminate this forum we got it made. There are plenty of other forums to discuss "Off-Topic Subjects". This one should be about The Amsterdam Coffeeshops imo.

This forum is supposed to be an extension of the ACD. If you want to use it like a chat room then you’ll have to employ some diplomacy. I’m not prepared to have the place hijacked by a small clique; it must remain open to all if it’s to fulfil its role as part of the ACD.

You can all be moderators but you must be moderate. We need more love and less bitterness. In case of inflammatory posts we need everyone to try to pacify rather than escalate.

The key, I think, is to avoid personalities. Disagree with the post not the poster. Criticise the opinion not the person expressing it. Know what I mean?

I have heard a LARGE GLASS of PRUNE JUICE
will rec-tum relieve you...of your small rectangle problems.

I have nothing more to add.

[axeman9]

lol Rez.

[bluelaru]

some still needs a bigger glass...and maybe a prune danish...

[pan4gold49]

So I guess that off topic is the next to go in depersonalization of ACD.
Lemming has done good in the forum I don't agree with the things that going down. We all have one common thread we all smoke pot. I have made friends here in the off topic forum. Blue I have some info for you I send it to you when your back of adam. You 420 people have fun smoke lots. I was just there and filed a report. So I have a question for you all if we take away to much does this become another dry impersonal place.

[bluelaru]

good point Pan

and it shows...if pan and i can...

great... on the info thing

please pm me about Haarlem

[Rez]

We all have one common thread we all smoke pot .... if we take away to much does this become another dry impersonal place.

exactly, some time ago this comunity was a pleasurable place to frequent simply because everybody had the same easy going, happy attitude. Yes we had differences but we sorted them out with polite exppression of one's opinions and respect opinions of other's.

I'm not for the removal of everything apart from just the coffeeshop forums as my idea of a public forum was : Forum - A medium for open discussion ... if I've not grasped the concept of this forum or if the purpose of this forum has changed then we need to be informed. I'm happy to go with whatever Lemming decides for the forum but knowing what adminstration and moderation options Lemming has I still uphold a strong opinion that however this forum goes forward it does need to be moderated at a much higher level than we have seen.

I don't see any need for hostility. I can't say it any simpler than that.

Peace

[Lemming]

This is precisely what I mean.

For over a year this forum was a beautiful place. It was almost improbably friendly with a really constructive attitude. Several times I posted messages saying how impressed I was that the members had handled situations that arose without resorting to insults or shouting at me to ban people. It was wonderful. There was none of this forum politics. It worked because everyone wanted it to work, not because there were strict rules, control, secrecy or exclusiveness.

How did we get from there to all of this unpleasantness, conflict and politics?

I don’t know the answer to that but I have noticed that most of the politics seem to be about the pros and cons of VDF’s policies. On one side we have people saying what Rez is saying here, that this forum should adopt VDF’s attitude and on the other side we have people complaining about VDF’s attitude.

My point is that this shouldn’t be this forum’s problem. Debates about VDF’s policies should take place within VDF, not here.

I’m not taking sides in the argument and I’m certainly not criticising VDF as an independent forum. I know many members of ACD forum are also members of Channels forum but I wouldn’t expect an ex-member of Channels to carry on a discussion on why they were excluded from there with current members of Channels on this forum. At least, no more than they might carry on on a forum about African polar bears or anywhere else that happened to share some members with Channels.

Talking purely hypothetically, if someone enters VDF via ACD and is then kicked out of VDF again they would finish up back in ACD but locked out of VDF. Then they wouldn’t be able to even read what’s on VDF because it’s secret. Such a person wouldn’t even need to be paranoid to wonder whether everyone on there was talking about them behind their back. It wouldn’t matter whether they were really or not.

It is for this reason, if no other, that VDF is like a forum within a forum If someone is ejected from there then I’m obliged to eject them from here too just to stop the endless bickering.

The fact that it has this private members club inside it must change the nature of the ACD forum. As Rez and few others keep offering advice, might I return the complement by suggesting that VDF should be less secretive? Moderation and expulsion and one thing but why secret?

The ACD itself is an information resource. Absolutely anyone can read it like a book. From a shop page on there they might find their way through to the additional reviews and news on the forum. They won’t be able to add a review without joining the forum but they can read all of the information so it extends the resource of the main site. If they then find their way through to VDF they can’t read so it’s not part of the resource.

[DrGonzo]

Things changed Lemming when a certain bad element moved in........ How they were dealt with (or not) may have excacerbated that sitiuation.

[DC]

Yeah, but who was that masked man?. Stranger or somebody known. If it was a stranger then maybe the leash was a bit long, but if looked upon as an experiment... it was very educational an enlightening. If it was somebody known then both sites had a hand in creating what he turned out to be. Going by the amount of personal shit, I'd say born here matured there. Surely though, the way it was or wasn't dealt with (depending on yer viewpoint) was effective. It's gone, with one reasonbly well tempered 'discussion' goin on (and a couple of brothers being brothers) in the section it's meant to be...off topic. A few noses have been put out of place, but I think that might have to do more with private messages rather than the blatantly cheap public ones. I like and appreciate the ideals Rez and the vdf members try to strive for. However, I personally think it's too hard to achieve those goals on a full website without ultimately, to a certain extent... barricading yerself in. When more trolls come back here, they'll run around makin noise, tip over a few boxes and maybe even rob the cash register. But the more you become like Fort Knox, the more effort gets put into cracking the code for the front door. When that code is an unrecognised ip address and the impression of honesty, it makes me nervous for some of you guys. Suffices to say that vdf is no doubt the jewel wanted for the last troll's crown.

[trike]

...the more you become like Fort Knox, the more effort gets put into cracking the code for the front door...

Exactly.
I don't know if many members here are familiar with "The Simpsons", but there is an episode where giant statues start destroying the town and the townspeople eventually realize that the statues are fueled by attention ... little Lisa Simpson sings a song to the town titled "Just Don't Look!" - upon following her song the statues die and the town is saved.
That phrase always seems to pop into my head in forum topics where a member is sabotaging the positivity of a forum or when 'respectable' members are talking about 'the problem' and 'how to deal with it...'
Just don't look.... Just don't look.....

P.S - Lemming, forget the hiccups - this place is still fantastic, a lot of new faces, and it's nice to see some of the 'originals' still hanging around....

It's good to be back.
Trike

[Rev]

As has basically been said already, people just need to ignore things, it really isn't that hard.

More clique's than a camera, welcome to the internet

[DrGonzo]

I must admit to be intrigued as DC is to a certain persons Identity.

Still, this is a better deal, not knowing and having peace....... much more satisfactory.

[Lemming]

Things changed Lemming when a certain bad element moved in........ How they were dealt with (or not) may have excacerbated that sitiuation.

Yes but dealt with by whom? Me or you and everyone else?

There were all sorts of what might be considered as "bad elements" in the past but they were dealt with calmly, respectfully and non-judgementally by the members and just faded away.

If moderation means calming the waters rather than starting a war then I'm all for it. But, what would you have the moderators here do that they don't now? Delete and edit posts or step in with some moderate, non-provocative words?

I think DC is probably just referring to a recent theory on the identity of the Fake Sheik. (According to some, that Tom and Jerry show began when a member of this forum had some sort of embarrassment on VDF and created several characters here and elsewhere to antagonise certain people. In the unlikely event that this is true then it's very sad and if it isn't true then it hints at a worrying level of paranoia in certain circles.)

[bb420]

In the unlikely event that this is true then it's very sad and if it isn't true then it hints at a worrying level of paranoia in certain circles.)

Like Buffalo Springfield said in For what it's worth "Paranoia strikes deep".

[Lemming]

with our differences firmly left to one side, I'll see you on Thursday when we can "Smoke a joint and chill" ... no shop talk.

Absolutely! Whilst we disagree on this I'm sure we have far more in common than differences. I’m really looking forward to meeting you and sharing a vapo bag. If it’s anything like last year, conversation will dry up pretty rapidly to be replaced by inane grins . Excess will be the order of the day, not moderation. I’m sure we'll leave forum politics behind here in cyberspace.