Va. Tech Shooting
Moderator: Balou
DC....I MENT THE FIGHTING PART....
WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO FIGHT WITH ME
MY POINT............WHEN THESE FUCKERS HIJACKED THE THREAD
THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN TOLD TO TAKE IT TO THE ARGUMENT CLINIC
Where they could fight till they fell off the planet.....
BUT.......NO......They were allowed by all of the people watching
to go back and forth ...Detracting from the
Total waste of another HUMAN BEING LIFE.......for NOTHING
The really sad part is.....I dont think I'm alone.....but we here ( A generalazation about most americans)
have seen and expierenced so much waste.....that we are becoming numb...and fumble in finding ways to make changes ...to our system that we can all LIVE with.....
WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO FIGHT WITH ME
MY POINT............WHEN THESE FUCKERS HIJACKED THE THREAD
THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN TOLD TO TAKE IT TO THE ARGUMENT CLINIC
Where they could fight till they fell off the planet.....
BUT.......NO......They were allowed by all of the people watching
to go back and forth ...Detracting from the
Total waste of another HUMAN BEING LIFE.......for NOTHING
The really sad part is.....I dont think I'm alone.....but we here ( A generalazation about most americans)
have seen and expierenced so much waste.....that we are becoming numb...and fumble in finding ways to make changes ...to our system that we can all LIVE with.....
Though I detest it ,I can speak of the gun owner mentality in this part of the USA (about 85 crow miles from Blacksburg ) these folk subscribe to the "Domino Theory" bigtime ...by that I mean ...let them take away our nukes and next thing they'll want our bazooka,then our machine guns .They draw a firm line on any restriction. And speaking of the majority of gun owners on the street- Not the retailers,companies etc. we know why they're so hardheaded ...Its the likes of Hilary Clinton ,or Al Gore , or any "Liberal " Polititian ,that they're worried about , NOT those ,like our current administration who demonstatively DO attack their constitutional rights ..."thems god fearing ,queer hating, terrorist fighters,who stand up to them hippy pot smokin tree huggers who want to protect that virgin piece of hardwood forest from the 'dozers so we can build a new Wal-mart and have some jobs around here" . Ok not a pretty picture , but also not an absolute majority . But, a group that will employ tactics that many of the people on this forum would be loathe to adopt. E.G. -charlton heston and the nras last minute smear campaign against Al Gore right before the 2000 Presidential election in the state of West Virginia " He WILL work to take away your 2nd amendment rights"...and so on ...It worked unfortunately and this generally blue state went red ...and suddenly florida mattered ...anyway I'm rambling ,but wanted to offer you overseas folk some insight into the difficulty we may have getting meaningful gun control in this country ...y'all in AMS for 4/20... have a blast ...our time will come
addendum- One thing I didn't note was the popularity of "hunting" in these parts ...and this is probably a majority thing ...if you ask a kid to name the 4 seasons you may hear -deer,bear,squirrel and turkey...all of which require guns (well bows/arrows are used as well) ...Squirrel brains are considered a delicacy (not by me) ...deer hunting is often carried out on
4 wheelers under the influence of mass quantities of alchohol,and bear hunting done with the company of large packs of particularly nasty dogs, who are turned loose and tracked by radio,often without regard to property lines,who do most of the dirty work , then the mighty hunter parades thru town with the dead bear strapped to the front of his pickup truck ...Now I know hunting is practiced in the Euro countries though I don't know the extent .
I did have a conversation with a sporting goods salesman in Dokkum regarding the guns he had for sale ...Don't think I could've bought one .
addendum- One thing I didn't note was the popularity of "hunting" in these parts ...and this is probably a majority thing ...if you ask a kid to name the 4 seasons you may hear -deer,bear,squirrel and turkey...all of which require guns (well bows/arrows are used as well) ...Squirrel brains are considered a delicacy (not by me) ...deer hunting is often carried out on
4 wheelers under the influence of mass quantities of alchohol,and bear hunting done with the company of large packs of particularly nasty dogs, who are turned loose and tracked by radio,often without regard to property lines,who do most of the dirty work , then the mighty hunter parades thru town with the dead bear strapped to the front of his pickup truck ...Now I know hunting is practiced in the Euro countries though I don't know the extent .
I did have a conversation with a sporting goods salesman in Dokkum regarding the guns he had for sale ...Don't think I could've bought one .
Last edited by Epsilon on Fri 20th Apr 2007 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
yeah, some Cylons 
want to argue about whether Iraqis are arabs, or whether or not amerikkka is killing them systematically for oil; or about the Argument Clinic that they use to infect all posts.
The reality is that the death cult has a firm grip on amerikkkan policy. Every loony & every criminal can easily get a gun thanx to these policies.
So we can all expect more Columbines & Virginia Techs in amerikkka, it's inevitable. The NRA criminal lobby types should be proud that so many more kids are going to die because of their policies.
want to argue about whether Iraqis are arabs, or whether or not amerikkka is killing them systematically for oil; or about the Argument Clinic that they use to infect all posts.The reality is that the death cult has a firm grip on amerikkkan policy. Every loony & every criminal can easily get a gun thanx to these policies.
So we can all expect more Columbines & Virginia Techs in amerikkka, it's inevitable. The NRA criminal lobby types should be proud that so many more kids are going to die because of their policies.
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.
Have to say, and it's been on my mind since the start of this thread.
This is a Tragedy.... but more people in Africa died this last hour.... more people worldwide died this very minute for all sorts of terrible reasons..... the fact that this tragedy happened in a country where the media is king means we are discussing it....
Are not the victims of car bombings in Baghdad just as worthy or the starving children in the Sudan? Or the victims of a crazy civil war in Siera Leone?
Yes it's a tragedy and I am truely sorry for the families involved but let's face it, we're only discussing it because it happened on a Western doorstep.
This is a Tragedy.... but more people in Africa died this last hour.... more people worldwide died this very minute for all sorts of terrible reasons..... the fact that this tragedy happened in a country where the media is king means we are discussing it....
Are not the victims of car bombings in Baghdad just as worthy or the starving children in the Sudan? Or the victims of a crazy civil war in Siera Leone?
Yes it's a tragedy and I am truely sorry for the families involved but let's face it, we're only discussing it because it happened on a Western doorstep.
When the going gets weird, the weird get going!
yeah, on topic & right... in missed meds landDrGonzo wrote:Or is the ficticious link here Oil? They have Oil so they must be Arabs..... that's just ignorant.
Iraq and Iran are Persian...... that's P E R S I A N......
(meaning off-topic & wrongo boyo in the real world)
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.
Shrug. I agree with ya, Gonzo. Sorry to all those who lost someone, but not for nothing.. who gives a shit? The cops f'd up, the courts f'd up, his family f'd up... hell, anyone who knew this guy said it was coming. He mailed out hate tapes to the media, had a court rule he was a threat to himself and others, etc. But no one did a damn thing. Then he kills a bunch of people and everyone is like "oh my god, what a tragedy!"DrGonzo wrote:I'm not trying to Hijack anything... those are my genuine thoughts on the matter.
It serves you to say I am, because then you can justify the A/C.
Reread my post and tell me it's not On Topic and then I will call you a liar.
No, the real tragedy is that no one did anything about it when they could... despite all the warning signs. Kinda like letting people take flying lessons when all they are interested in is steering and to hell with landing the plane.
I feel the same way about 9/11 and I am a New Yorker and lost friends in the attack. But who cares? As Gonzo said, more people die in Darfur everyday than can be counted. But, who cares about them. "They are black and bush-babies." seems to be all the 'civilized' world seems to have to say. Its sickening. Starvation, AIDS, genocide, wars across the globe, gender oppression, rape, murder.... by the thousands if not hundreds of thousands every day. But some wackadoo snuffs out 32 lights in Texas and that's all you will hear about for months on end. Hell, years... as everyone and their mother will now try to turn the tragedy into some sort of stumping block to get their agendas across.
It was horrible, no doubt. I feel for those who suffered. But lets not turn them into another Wives of 9/11 where all of a sudden that is the most important thing and if you don't agree with them you are lynched. Enough is enough. People die so that others can live. Let's get on with living. Not to mention the incredible hubris this attitude shows.
"Oh, no! 32 people were slaughtered! Tragedy! Tragedy!"
"What about Darfur?"
"Who's he?
"What about starving children across the world?"
"Who cares, they aren't even American."
"What about Global Warming and the slow death it is bringing us all?"
"So long as I can drive my Hummer and money comes in hand over fist, I don't believe there is such a thing as Global Warming."
Shrug. I'm an ardent American, but sometimes... even I get sick of the people in this country. It's like living in a land where everyone walks around with their heads crammed up their asses, and they are so self-important that they refuse to admit their own shit stinks.
As for those Euros who are going to talk gun laws. Stow it. You live on a continent that lost ALL its dangerous animals long, long ago. You cannot speak to the American mindset, nor to the realities on the ground. We have bears, large felines, etc. Open space that could swallow all of Europe, and then some. You cannot compare your overly tamed children's park of a culture/society to that of the Americans. We have different requirements and different cultures. Beyond that, wtf are you to even question our policies? We don't bring guns to Europe, so as far as I can see, it has nothing to do with you all whatsoever.
Not to mention one salient fact: taking away guns doesn't take them away from the criminals. It only takes them away from honest citizens which makes it easier for the criminals in the long run. Criminals get their guns illegally already. The rest of us have to get registered, and are limited in what we can buy. Making them illegal won't stop anyone from dying from guns. It just makes the criminals the winners, because people who weren't doing anything wrong to begin with gave up more of their rights in the false belief it was making things better. Losing rights never makes anything better. Ever.
50 characters? Nothing to say in 50 characters.
I'd like to call on my friend John Lennon to refute that statement...
hmmm, he;s silent for some reason --
Oh, YEah! He got killed by a psycho who found it so easy to get a gun in amerikkka!
Thanx, death cult, for claiming we have to allow every nut case to get a gun & take over 30,000 lives a year!
I know the people behind the next Va. Tech (which is inevitable) are happy to hear from you!
hmmm, he;s silent for some reason --
Oh, YEah! He got killed by a psycho who found it so easy to get a gun in amerikkka!
Thanx, death cult, for claiming we have to allow every nut case to get a gun & take over 30,000 lives a year!
I know the people behind the next Va. Tech (which is inevitable) are happy to hear from you!
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.
Dude, europe might have lost most of it's wild animals but it's got crime older than America's history. Hunting rifles kill wild animals, but it wasn't hunting rifles that made their way into the hands of terrorists in Northern Ireland. Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it isn't happening, look harder......... it has plenty to do with us.Stygian23 wrote:
As for those Euros who are going to talk gun laws. Stow it. You live on a continent that lost ALL its dangerous animals long, long ago. You cannot speak to the American mindset, nor to the realities on the ground. We have bears, large felines, etc. Open space that could swallow all of Europe, and then some. You cannot compare your overly tamed children's park of a culture/society to that of the Americans. We have different requirements and different cultures. Beyond that, wtf are you to even question our policies? We don't bring guns to Europe, so as far as I can see, it has nothing to do with you all whatsoever.
Not to mention one salient fact: taking away guns doesn't take them away from the criminals. It only takes them away from honest citizens which makes it easier for the criminals in the long run. Criminals get their guns illegally already. The rest of us have to get registered, and are limited in what we can buy. Making them illegal won't stop anyone from dying from guns. It just makes the criminals the winners, because people who weren't doing anything wrong to begin with gave up more of their rights in the false belief it was making things better. Losing rights never makes anything better. Ever.
As for the last paragraph. Taking guns away DOES stop criminals getting them and making them illegal WILL stop people from dying...and sometimes, the people need protected from themselves. Not all 'rights' are right....otherwise there'd be no such thing as an 'amendment'.
Interesting reading, maybe sourcing the origions and legitmacy of the stories will help with the 20/20.
Venezuelan national and a US citizen placed an order for 150,000 rounds of AK-47 ammunition at a single gun shop in Miami. Although it is legal to buy ammunition in the United States, exporting it requires a special license, which the smugglers did not have. Instead, they listed the cargo as AAA batteries and tried to ship it to Venezuela, which is known to be a source of arms smuggled into Colombia for paramilitary and rebel groups. US Customs arrested the two men after receiving a tip from the gun shop.
Haiti Florida is also popular with Haitian gun smugglers. According to the ATF's Miami office, 25 percent of its gun-smuggling cases in the past two years have involved guns destined for Haiti, making it the number-one foreign destination for guns trafficked out of the area. One bust in 1995 uncovered 15,000 rounds of ammunition and 260 firearms, purchased from gun dealers in Fort Lauderdale. In another incident, two men were arrested after they stuffed 110 semiautomatic pistols inside turkey carcasses and tried to ship them to Haiti, which has long harbored paramilitary groups and death squads. The guns had been legally purchased from gun shops in Pompano Beach.
IRA In July 1999 an Irish postal worker uncovered a smuggling operation that involved guns mailed from the United States to members of the Irish Republican Army. An ensuing investigation by British police and the FBI intercepted forty-six handguns and 600 rounds of ammunition, all legally purchased at gun dealerships in Florida. Siobhan Browne, a suspect whom the Irish press dubbed the IRA "Mata Hari," told authorities that a gun-shop owner in Florida agreed not to file required ATF paperwork for a fee of $50 per gun. Another suspect, Conor Claxton, who confessed that the weapons were intended for possible use against Northern Ireland's police, said the IRA chose South Florida because of its lax gun laws and its abundant gun shops.
Hezbollah Although a convicted felon, Ali Boumelhem was able to acquire several weapons by purchasing them at gun shows in Michigan (background checks are not required at shows in that state). He was preparing to ship them to Lebanon when he was arrested by ATF and FBI agents. FBI agents believed that the weapons were destined for Hezbollah, since they had earlier seen Boumelhem in a videotape declaring his allegiance to the group. Boumelhem was eventually convicted in March 2002 on seven arms and conspiracy charges, and sentenced to forty-four months in federal prison.
Al-Fuqra Members of Al-Fuqra, a US-based organization linked to numerous terrorist attacks, exploited gun-law loopholes in Virginia to acquire a small arsenal of weapons. As a convicted felon, Vincente Pierre couldn't legally purchase a firearm, so he had his wife, Traci Upshur, buy guns for him. The "straw purchase" was videotaped in 1998 by ATF agents, who were gathering evidence against members of Al-Fuqra as part of a wide-scale investigation. It wasn't until after September 11, however, that the two were finally arrested, in what US Attorney John Brownlee characterized as a new policy of "prevent first and prosecute second." Another Al-Fuqra member, Bilal Abdullah ben Benu, lied about his criminal past when purchasing firearms in 1999. Like Pierre and Upshur, Benu had been under surveillance by ATF long before September 11, and was quickly arrested afterward.
ELN Colombian arms dealers ran a smuggling operation out of Florida in the late 1990s that supplied weapons to members of the National Liberation Army, a major guerrilla group in Colombia. When Colombian intelligence officials seized a trove of assault rifles headed to the rebel group, ATF agents helped traced them to gun shops in Miami. The agents believe that the smugglers purchased as many as 600 assault rifles, which they concealed as machine parts and shipped to Colombia on cargo flights.
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Alaskan Biker
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DC you do raise some very valid points about criminal smugglers taking advantage of the fact that we have gun manufacturers producing a item that is quite valuable and in high demand world wide and they will obtain them by any means be it through legal loopholes or outright theft and really I can not find fault with your thinking on any of this.
I do have one problem with the content of your post .....why just mainly bash America your statement is valid concerning any gun producing nation and though maybe not your intention most people will read it and think this is mainly only an American problem and all I know is back in the day when I was younger and ignorantly more idealistic the parts of the world I found myself in had an abundance of weapons manufactured from every country obtained by all means both legal and illegal and European weapons where always just as much in abundance as those from America , Russia and China.
Even here in America at this present time if you have the MONEY and you have the connections or purchase the connections you can place the order and sooner or later you will have any firearm you request manufactured from any country in the world including the European continent and if you have the money sure as there will be rain someday that weapon will appear in your hands all the way over here in America.
Though I do not think it was your intention it does lead the uninformed to believe that this is just mostly our dumb ass governments fault even when all the other gun producing countries no matter what they may do within their own borders they certainly have a very relaxed attitude about what happens to their product throughout the rest of the world.
No hostile intentions at all DC.......so have a smoke and a great day
Peace
I do have one problem with the content of your post .....why just mainly bash America your statement is valid concerning any gun producing nation and though maybe not your intention most people will read it and think this is mainly only an American problem and all I know is back in the day when I was younger and ignorantly more idealistic the parts of the world I found myself in had an abundance of weapons manufactured from every country obtained by all means both legal and illegal and European weapons where always just as much in abundance as those from America , Russia and China.
Even here in America at this present time if you have the MONEY and you have the connections or purchase the connections you can place the order and sooner or later you will have any firearm you request manufactured from any country in the world including the European continent and if you have the money sure as there will be rain someday that weapon will appear in your hands all the way over here in America.
Though I do not think it was your intention it does lead the uninformed to believe that this is just mostly our dumb ass governments fault even when all the other gun producing countries no matter what they may do within their own borders they certainly have a very relaxed attitude about what happens to their product throughout the rest of the world.
No hostile intentions at all DC.......so have a smoke and a great day
Peace******* World Wide Legal *******