In God we trust....

[DC]

Theme tune to part of this thread?. The drugs don't work

Anyway, time to think again...Zeitgeist: Addendum

http://www.zeitgeist.com

[Sir Niall of Essex-sire]

Theme tune to part of this thread?. The drugs don't work

Anyway, time to think again...Zeitgeist: Addendum

http://www.zeitgeist.com

Ive watched a couple of these films, i think though alot of the films arguments fall foul to the common mistake of consipry theorists, that the sceptical thinking ignores what is most logical and looks for that which is not. Then takes that which is not and asserts it as truth. I have no doubt that there is under-handed work by the Governments of the world, this has been proven through many examples regarding Governments dealing with there own countries affairs. See the collusion of Brit forces with the Loyalist paramiltiles in N.I, the same Governemnt that preaches against the terrorism of other groups. Governments will exploit people/events etc to suit there own needs. The Governments dont give a fuck about the public, if they did they wouldnt sell us booze or fags, they get the taxes, we get fucked, helps them out both ways.

The one world Government idea i cant except, we have too many contrasting ideologies in the world. Wether its Communisim vs. Capitialism or the Religious fanatics, not just in the Islamic world but the Republican party in the US has alot of Religious fanatical ideas about it, the rise in influence of the Christian parties in the UK also seem to indicate that the same is happening here. Hindusim based ruling regimes are also gulity. The conflicts between religion are as old as humans, they cant co-exist, due to truth claims asserted by each religious tradition. Governments hold these religions true, Iran for an example, therefore will not be able to share power with others. Cant see it happening.

The world is more complex than it seems, the Governing of the world is an issue which needs to be resolved. But, unfortantly we have gone to far, i dont consider that i have my head in the sand, but i am in the system, i need to pay bills and support people, i cannot go against the system. The legacy we leave the future generations is one of a destroyed planet, because people refuse to believe in Globel warming. Another example of people taking the most illogical answer asserting it as truth and claiming to just be a sceptical thinker. But also a world where the future generations are more easy to expolit that others, the consumerism look at for yourself ideals that are held by alot of society can be seen by people simply thinking a tramp in the street should get a job, if im able then they are to. Refusing to provide a socialised health care system and simply not caring about the issues brought up in films such as these.

In regards to the human emotions issues brought up in the previous film. Its important to start at the beggining before making a decision about the issue. Now human emotions beginnings come form one of two places, depending on your beliefs. Either they are divinely given, or simply developed as adaptive characterists which help us in our surival, surival as described by pyschologists, that is the continuation of ones genes. Therefore, any judgement on the twist and exploitation is either wrong because it is interferring with the Divine and completely wrong, or it is exploitating evolutionary characterists to futher ones own means. Which is after all how evolution works, and the process of natural selection begins, one group asserts and advantage they have to control and become dominant over another group ensuring their survial. This can happen through the development of the abiltly to talk, or pyshical aspects such as the development of an aposable thumb. Therefore in a evolutionary sense, exploiting the emotions of the masses is a smart move, furthermore it is to be expected as the human race evoles. However that means that it is a now a case of us verses those exploiting us and us. They use their strength of greater resources and power, the only remaining strength we have is numbers. Thereby leaving the only way to prevent this and our destruction and complete expolitation is to stand up as one and resist such exploitation from the ruling ellite. Which is of course, very Marxist, but also what i think these films are ultimatly alluding to. Whether i agree with this or not is not the point. But as someone who does not automatically except the existence of a divine power it leaves interesting questions.

There is however an important line to draw, and as such, you should take any information given to you with a pinch of salt. As with most things in life the true answer i think is never portrayed by a single point of view, it is infact, a mixture of many viewpoints. Its in the grea areas, that we find truth.

I like these films alot, as they provide an interesting point of view. I think they should be appreciated for doing such. I hope this provides you with an interesting conversation starter DC rather than the quality of hash availabe at Tweede De Karmer.

[OneForTheRoad]

Thanks DC, I've bookmarked this for viewing at the weekend...

[DC]

Stupid Vaporisor, leanin over to take a hit and I delete an hour!. Where is the 'undo dumb fuck stoner manoeuvre' button on windows?!?!

Sir...I'll get back to ya on this one.

[Sir Niall of Essex-sire]

Stupid Vaporisor, leanin over to take a hit and I delete an hour!. Where is the 'undo dumb fuck stoner manoeuvre' button on windows?!?!

Sir...I'll get back to ya on this one.

[DC]

Wanted to post a vid and remembered this thread, forgot I hadn't answered you niall...

In respect to Zeitgeist, having researched it a tad further some of their points don't exactly hit the mark. I didn't like the 9/11 conspiracy theory being included but it did raise a few questions that are hard to disprove and I've probably said it before but, the section around the telephone call dubbed on to the video of the towers falling is deffinately one of the most powerful things I've actually ever seen on film. I mainly wanted to hear an americans point of view on the end part about the federal bank and the weird shit the that went on to create the great depression. Apart from the income tax madness, if you were the new world order type...this might be when they made up their minds on how to do it. Personally I don't really give a toss about a new world order but I deffinately believe it's slowly comin about. Wherever you are in the world, yer a capitalist waiting to come out of the closet. As you said, yer in the system with bills, these days we all are. But the main reason I think it's possible is because even now, alot of weapon systems being created are automated. In 20 odd years time the grunt can be taken off the battlefield with technology replacing him. This also means the weak human link with a conscience is vastly reduced within the chain of command when orders to quell civil disobedience arrive. I'm not talking Terminator, more... night at George Bushes house on the PS3. "Battlefield 33 Masons in control". True, they want to control the masses to help ensure their own survival but they'll get to a point where they wont mind 'how' they control them. At the minute they use loads of shit like capitalism and religion...one day it'll be it'll be simple aggressive force. So anybody planning a revolution, might be wise to do it now. Anyway, one for the religious types.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 683758535#
Seen it on Dutch TV, there's a small bit about Amsterdam near the end...should any of you lion dodgers make it the far.

[CHELSEA_SMOKERS_SOCIETY]

i can be bothered to get really into this, i only lasted the first 25 minutes of the film, but i think i know where its going....

so my '2 cents'....

i am a strong atheist, not agnostic, and i am very aware of how all religions are basically evolved versions of the previous ones, and are a very effective method of controlling a society (which i believe every society needs to be (how and to what end its controlled is the problem, not the control itslef)).

i actually agree with lots of the films opinions, but i am automaticaly turned off by this kinda of presentation. it is the same level of propoganda as any political party broadcast, or olympic opening ceremony.

maybe its just me, but ...... stating your opinion as fact, and putting it to music and pretty pictures (or shocking pictures, whatever you need to confirm your point) really smacks of propoganda too.

i dont like to get into theological, political, etc. discussions like this on here... this is a coffeeshop forum, and that what im here to read about... just occasionally something stirs me up and i have to reply..

still.....thanks to dc for putting this link, as its obviously woken something in me to make me answer..

[CHELSEA_SMOKERS_SOCIETY]

ive continued watching a bit more, and ive realised that this film is not just a film aimed at busting religeon, it goes further and becomes a conspiracy film about society as a whole.....

i spent a wonderfull month in nimbin australia recently, and have had my fill of this stuff...... put down cleverly, these opinions make sense....but guess what.... when put down clearly the other side also makes sense....

i think im gonna watch the 'everything is OK' videos on youtube.....

[Uncle Ron]

Thanks for the thought provoking post DC, even after nearly three years, one counting the Addendum. ':)'

The Brandenburg Group
Christianity
Islam
Socialism
Communism
Democracy
Capitalism
The Meek ':shock:'

The extinction of Man will be caused by Freewill.

Let's start with Lawyers. ':lol:'

Edit (sarcasm) - I attribute the ignorance of Man to having penis envy. What would the world be like if women were in charge?

[Rasa]

I would love to discuss this, im huge into the Zeitgeist movement. I feel like Social Security Numbers are slave numbers and being born with one isnt true freedom. True Freedom should be the ability to go in the woods and live without being disturbed, not paying property taxes. etc.

[Sir Niall of Essex-sire]

Ah, here's a potentially controversial view on Religion.

For me, to claim any truth 100% is wrong, Atheism is IMO a mis-guided world view. Mainly because it relies heavily on Empiricist standards on measurement,. This IMO is also where the work of Hume falls down a bit, Science can develop only when in addition to new theories, new standards of measurements are discovered. Atheism and Naturalistic Atheists rely heavily on the Empiricist standards of measurement, this is problematic as it is limiting an extremely complex issue into the narrow requirements of the Empiricist standards of measurement. This is my view mis-represents the situation as much as Creation Science.

This does not mean that Evolution or the Big Bang are false, i'm not saying that, in fact i think we have to move beyond believing that that Evolution is just another opinion. However, Evolution exists within in our environment; so it is more closely related to Empiricist standards of measure, i think therefore it is logically consistent to assert that it is an acceptable standard of measurement.

With Supernatural examples though, it becomes more difficult, and there has to be at least the acceptance that traditional standards of evidence can be difficult to apply. I think Atheism is at fault at the same way that Theism is, this is why i remain a Pantheist.

In regards to the NWO, it is IMO believable for sure. I don't know if i subscribe to it though, i definitely think that Capitalism allows for injustices and justifies holding more value to a human construct than a human life. I think there does need to be a change, some type of Non-Statist Socialism. I don't think this will happen though because people are made to fear the change of systems by those who benefit from the inequalities. The most powerful countries in the world citizens need to lead the way, but they won't, because it is those countries that consumerism is the most rampant.

I'm a Confucius in my view of human beings, i believe we are born essentially good. However, we are born into a world where people are taught to not value their fellow man beyond what service they provide and furthermore the closeness in race and distance of a person also decides their value.

Maybe we'll turn it round, but it's more likely that Apple will bring out a new I-Pod and we'll concentrate on that.

[DC]

It'll GT5 for me.

Isms in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.

Hmmm, I must be a Empiricist panthiestical athiest then. Everything's from the same source which is the experience of a conciousness I know as me, I, not god. A constant quantum experiment of observation, based on a tempory set of rules I've created and when this eventually 'dies', the rules change. But if that is true, then I'm now wondering why I'm explaining this to what effectively must be...myself. Rabbits anyone?.

..when put down clearly the other side also makes sense....

CHELSEA, I'm not sure which link yer talking about but in regards to the above quote. 9/11 conspiracy theory in Zeitgeist yes it can. NWO , federal bank and 'Religulous'ness all around no, generally it doesn't.... any examples?.

Rasa, for that I'll see you on the other end of an ice joint when ya migrate here.

Edit (sarcasm) - I attribute the ignorance of Man to having penis envy. What would the world be like if women were in charge?

Awesome for 3 weeks of the month and a complete fookin nightmare for the other 1?.

[Sir Niall of Essex-sire]

Hmmm, I must be a Empiricist panthiestical athiest then. Everything's from the same source which is the experience of a conciousness I know as me, I, not god. A constant quantum experiment of observation, based on a tempory set of rules I've created and when this eventually 'dies', the rules change. But if that is true, then I'm now wondering why I'm explaining this to what effectively must be...myself. Rabbits anyone?.

This i like, a pool of consciousness from which all stems without a creator or higher power responsible for it?

That i can vibe with!

You should use that to blow some minds in Nes when people have had a couple of smokes...

[Pauli Wallnuts]

Edit (sarcasm) - I attribute the ignorance of Man to having penis envy. What would the world be like if women were in charge?

Awesome for 3 weeks of the month and a complete fookin nightmare for the other 1?.

[Sir Niall of Essex-sire]

Edit (sarcasm) - I attribute the ignorance of Man to having penis envy. What would the world be like if women were in charge?

Awesome for 3 weeks of the month and a complete fookin nightmare for the other 1?.

Such blatant sexism is disgraceful, esp. when Australia has just had its first female prime minster.

Speaking of that, i think that the future of the Australian economy doesn't bode well, it's bound to crash......

into the back of another car.