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Amsterdam coffee shops say tobacco ban is blow to business

Posted: Tue 17th Jun 2008 07:03 am
by Puffin13
Amsterdam coffee shops say tobacco ban is blow to business
By Peter Popham and Vanessa Mock
Tuesday, 17 June 2008

Coffee-shop owners in Amsterdam say the tobacco ban will force their customers to smoke cannabis-only spliffs or stay away

The Netherlands' famous coffee shops, where marijuana is available over the counter, face the threat of extinction when the country goes smoke-free on 1 July.

Smoking dope is the raison d'être of the cafes which are scattered across the country, with the greatest and most famous concentration in Amsterdam. But when the tobacco ban comes in, the coffee shops will not be exempt.

This will lead to the paradoxical situation that only pure grass or cannabis resin, which are not covered by the ban, can be legally smoked in the shops.

Anybody rolling a tobacco-based joint will be breaking the law – but only because of the tobacco. "The new rule is nonsense," said Willem Panders, of the Dutch tobacco traders' union. "It will be almost impossible to enforce because how are you going to check if someone is smoking cannabis mixed with tobacco, or pure cannabis?"

But despite desperate lobbying, owners have failed to get the government to make an exception of them. "Coffee shops will be treated in the same manner as other catering businesses," the Prime Minister, Jan Peter Balkanende, said last week. "It would have been wrong to move towards a smoke-free catering industry and then make an exception for coffee shops. People would not have understood that."

At any one time up to 1,300 coffee shops are for sale across the country, but the Dutch catering magazine Horeca Vizier reports that the figure has jumped to 1,600 because of the ban.

Marc Jacobsen, of BCD, a national association of coffee-shop owners which has been urging the government to give them special status, told the online version of Der Spiegel: "In a cafe you come to drink something. In a restaurant you come to eat. But when you come to a coffee shop you come to smoke, so smoking has to be allowed in a coffee shop."

As in the rest of Europe the purpose of the ban is to protect the health of staff, who at present are obliged to inhale passively other people's smoke. But Sandy Lambrecht, the manager of the Bulldog coffee shop on the Leidseplein in the heart of Amsterdam, said: "The new rules are absurd. You come to a coffee shop to smoke, after all – it's ridiculous that we have to comply. The new rules are meant to protect employees like me, but the point is that we chose to work here."

Paul Wilhelm, the owner of De Tweede Kamer, one of Amsterdam's most famous coffee shops, founded in 1985, argued: "If the boys are old enough to be sent to Afghanistan, then you can't tell me that people want to protect them from smoke in the workplace. They're old enough to decide on their own. They can vote, they can go to war – but now they won't even be allowed to make this decision?"

Many British pubs re-opened their gardens when the smoking ban took effect, but most Dutch coffee shops are penned into tiny premises with no outdoor space. The solution in Bulldog is to create a separate, walled-off space for those who want to smoke, off-limits to staff.

"We're now having to build a new section in our coffee-shop with a glass partition and special air filters for those who choose to smoke non-pure cannabis," said Sandy Lambrecht. "It's a shame as it will change the very congenial ambience in here – half of our customers will be shut off behind a glass wall. Our customers will grumble, that's for sure."

But the Dutch Health Minister, Ab Klink, is impenitent. "A positive side effect of the smoking ban," he said, "may be that consumers who spend the whole day hanging out in coffee shops will find other things to do."

Cannabis cafe culture

Contrary to popular perception, cannabis is – technically – an illegal substance in the Netherlands. However the country's pragmatic drug policy has led to a division in the eyes of the law between "hard" drugs, such as cocaine or heroin, and "soft", like cannabis.

Holland's policy of non-enforcement towards cannabis consumption and possession goes back to 1976. Originally it applied to a quantity of less than 30 grams, but the amount coffee shops are able to sell to one person is now limited to five grams.

Cannabis cafes haveto stick to strict criteria. They must be licensed, cannot admit or sell drugs to minors under 18, and the advertisement of drugs is banned. In April 2007, new legislation forced the coffee shops to choose between serving alcohol and cannabis. The vast majority opted to serve cannabis.

Although cannabis is usually mixed with tobacco and smoked in a joint, it can be smoked – without tobacco – in a bong or pipe. It can also be consumed as a tea or in cake form, but the effect of the drug takes much longer to be felt.

Source

Posted: Tue 17th Jun 2008 07:16 am
by sliderd
Personally, I think this will improve the air quality in the shops...

Damn! It's gotta be pure! ; )

Posted: Tue 17th Jun 2008 09:59 am
by itsmymagicallife
Puffin13 wrote:
"Coffee-shop owners in Amsterdam say the tobacco ban will force their customers to smoke cannabis-only spliffs or stay away"

Many customers especially Amsterdam residents often only come into a coffeeshop to buy cannabis to take away.


Puffin13 wrote:
"At any one time up to 1,300 coffee shops are for sale across the country, but the Dutch catering magazine Horeca Vizier reports that the figure has jumped to 1,600 because of the ban."

These are cafes for sale not licensed coffeeshops allowed to sell cannabis.

Posted: Tue 17th Jun 2008 03:28 pm
by sh@dy
itsmymagicallife wrote:
These are cafes for sale not licensed coffeeshops allowed to sell cannabis.
Are you sure? where did you get this information from?

Posted: Tue 17th Jun 2008 03:55 pm
by Boner
sh@dy wrote:
itsmymagicallife wrote:
These are cafes for sale not licensed coffeeshops allowed to sell cannabis.
Are you sure? where did you get this information from?
Someone posted the (near enough) same article regarding cafes not long ago, I did look but I couldn't see it.

I doubt theres even 1600 coffeeshops in the whole country.

Posted: Tue 17th Jun 2008 07:16 pm
by itsmymagicallife
sh@dy wrote:
itsmymagicallife wrote:
These are cafes for sale not licensed coffeeshops allowed to sell cannabis.
Are you sure? where did you get this information from?
Yes, I'm sure. For one, there are only about 800 licensed coffeeshops in the Netherlands these days.

And second this was reported on other news services in the last week and they were much clearer: http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2 ... _sales.php

Posted: Wed 18th Jun 2008 04:29 am
by Puffin13
itsmymagicallife wrote:Many customers especially Amsterdam residents often only come into a coffeeshop to buy cannabis to take away.

These are cafes for sale not licensed coffeeshops allowed to sell cannabis.
Right you are, itsmymagiciallife! :wink: The news article had a couple of errors in it. It should have read cafes and not coffeeshops.

Posted: Wed 18th Jun 2008 05:20 am
by travelling high
I see no problem with the ban.It sucks for those that use tobacco but doesn't affect us that don't :D

Posted: Wed 18th Jun 2008 11:06 am
by highdro
I do have a problem with it myself, i dont do shrooms but i dont want to see the smart shops close or be a shadow of their former self.

Its a personal freedom choice , we all probably take part in a small percent of pastimes available to humans , is it ok to ban the 95 % or so of things we dont take part in ? seems a selfish attitude .

Of course non tobacco smokers have a right to be protected, some coffeshops may even welcome it as they are anti tobacco and think it is akin to putting ketchup on their a la carte product.

we should all have a choice is the bottom line and i dont like being told what to do by religous nuts or petulent , politically correct pricks , who a re free to carry on as they please.

To be fair a large percent of places were no smoking anyhow , its only really adult orientated places that have been hit , and those people are big and ugly enough to make decisions for themselves.


smoking or non smoking sir !!!!!!!!!!

Posted: Wed 18th Jun 2008 12:44 pm
by itsmymagicallife
highdro wrote:
Of course non tobacco smokers have a right to be protected, some coffeshops may even welcome it as they are anti tobacco and think it is akin to putting ketchup on their a la carte product.

we should all have a choice is the bottom line and i dont like being told what to do by religous nuts or petulent , politically correct pricks , who a re free to carry on as they please.

To be fair a large percent of places were no smoking anyhow , its only really adult orientated places that have been hit , and those people are big and ugly enough to make decisions for themselves.
1. I doubt that even 1% of the coffeeshops in the Netherlands would choose to eliminate tobacco smoking given a choice.

2. What fucking country are you talking about that "a large percent of places were no smoking anyhow"? Not the Netherlands. The Dutch will smoke tobacco anywhere.

3. The point many tobacco smokers are missing is this new ban on tobacco smoking in the Netherlands is for employee safety only. Employees have to meet many safety rules in many other workplaces whether they want to or not. They can't just say "I'll take my chances on not wearing a hard hat on a constuction job" and get away with it or say let me work in that mine even tho it doesn't pass safety regulations.

Posted: Wed 18th Jun 2008 02:31 pm
by highdro
1. you are more than likely correct, hence the "some may even".
As im sure you are aware one even went that way a short while ago before the law comes into effect, and many cannabis enthusiasts are anti tobacco , so its possible is all im saying.

And if these places dont exist then the non tobacco smoker doesnt have a choice , which of course is equally wrong in the personal freedom stakes.

2. almost all the countries ive been to in the last 10 or 15 years i would say it was standard practice that , airports , public transportation, shops,subways , cinema, sporting venues and stadia, restuarants etc were non smoking or had designated smoking areas at best which was usaually in a adult venue such as a airport bar for example.

( this has reminded me i heard that mc donalds and the football shaped bar in schiphol departure lounge has already gone non smoking too, fair enough in the case of mcdonald i feel )

whether people adhered to it is maybe another matter lol.

most of these places a sensible human being wouldnt light up anyway, personally it only effects me or will do in the more adult orintated places as i said bars , coffeshops, concerts.

3. im very aware of why the horeca smoking ban is coming into effect, but topics here tend to be more consumer orientated and i just feel to work in one of these adult places if you are that anti smoking , maybe you aint right for that posistion best not fill out the application form

if you dont like nudity , dont get a job on a porn set.

Posted: Thu 19th Jun 2008 01:00 am
by ATWA
Wow how is it even possible that I couldnt agree more with you both, on the same time. Ridicilous high at the moment But I too feel that one should be able to smoke tobacco in coffeshops. I mean they are there for that purpose, to smoke in. And for all I know there is no 100% proof research that says that Cannabis doesnt cause lungcancer and could be dangerous for other people that accidently inhales?

Or is it? Because in that case Cannabis aswell as for all smoking should be banned. But I feel people can tink and act for themselves and make their right and good decisions in life.
A person working as a budtender, or bar tender for that mather, should have known what risks involves that kind of job. And hen deals with it, do or do not. I hate laws that just keeps us back, that doesnt let us think for ourselves.
I do know that a bar is somehwere where almost everyone is smoking and being drunk assholes, therefor I dont work there, or go there often.
When in amsterdam, I dont sit in The Dampkring smoking pure weed or drinking tea during fucking rushhour when i know the smoke will lay so tight you can barely see.

I go out in the air, and enjoy my joint. And I think that imples on every living being, the free will, right?
I should be able to do whatever this world supply and rightfully enjoy it as long as im not stepping on anyones toes.


Dont go to coffeshop aka smoking death-narcotica where only potheads hangs out if you are afraid of lung cancer. I mean come on? We could loosen up many stupid laws . Let people think for themselvs and set individual regulations for people that cant think for themselves..

Oh shit this is a long text i think, im so high and cant actually remember much of what were talking about so maybe im totally wrong.
And sorry for massive amounts of incorrect spellings. im a foreigner

Peace and love to all