Boerejongens West
Re: Boerejongens
I'd like to call to the stand our own resident hash-connoisseurs @Marok & @Jesscass (I trust their opinions as regular hash-reviewers the most), to review what their thoughts on these hashes are - I already recall that Jesscass ws a bit more dubious of the block, just like the rest of the pack - but if a few pages back was any indicator Marok21 seemed to enjoy the block hashes thoroughly enough...
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OneHighMofo
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Re: Boerejongens
I too would like to see some test results from the Bloc hashes, although as Mowie suggests - the lab needs to know the fraction that they're looking for in order to find contaminants, it isn't a case of putting a bud in the TLC machine and getting a report out the other side.
The MyDx is well - how can I put this politely?
Smoke and mirrors - at the very best. It does NOT test your sample - what it does, it compare your sample against others in their (VERY incomplete) database and tell you what your sample is 'most like'. Frankly. Absolutely useless if veracity of test data is important to you. Personally a 'test result' that is in fact a 'best guess comparision' is something of a contradiction in terms to me.
There's no doubt in my mind that the Bloc hashes are 'cut' with something. They have to be - to remain stable. Anyone who's ever made bubble hasj will tell you that sometimes even the best grades don't bind together - even under intense pressure. The product can be full melt on the nail but yet impossible to form into a solid block that doesn't crumble and fall apart eventually. There are just too many variables for solidity to be consistent across products therefore some 'cutting/binding' agent must be used.
Hopefully - that agent is Cannabis derived. Although I'd be VERY surprised if the quality of that agent was consistent in the case of the product we're discussing.
My guess is that Amsterdam is supplying the seeds to Moroccan farmers - who are harvesting the results, processing as is traditional (leave her to dry then beat her to death in a dusty hut) then using low grade oil from Roccy genetics as a binder - hence the spicy, minty flavour I get from all of these hashes.
I've not come across anything in the Rosin press that is cause for concern yet (from Boerejongens - not so Katsu with their burning tyre 'Kush Ice'), although Mowies nausea is up there ringing the alarm bells. I certainly experience the very same nausea effect when smoking a lot of low grade import (it happened to me last year in Marrakech) - Henna being totally obvious on the palette.
The MyDx is well - how can I put this politely?
Smoke and mirrors - at the very best. It does NOT test your sample - what it does, it compare your sample against others in their (VERY incomplete) database and tell you what your sample is 'most like'. Frankly. Absolutely useless if veracity of test data is important to you. Personally a 'test result' that is in fact a 'best guess comparision' is something of a contradiction in terms to me.
There's no doubt in my mind that the Bloc hashes are 'cut' with something. They have to be - to remain stable. Anyone who's ever made bubble hasj will tell you that sometimes even the best grades don't bind together - even under intense pressure. The product can be full melt on the nail but yet impossible to form into a solid block that doesn't crumble and fall apart eventually. There are just too many variables for solidity to be consistent across products therefore some 'cutting/binding' agent must be used.
Hopefully - that agent is Cannabis derived. Although I'd be VERY surprised if the quality of that agent was consistent in the case of the product we're discussing.
My guess is that Amsterdam is supplying the seeds to Moroccan farmers - who are harvesting the results, processing as is traditional (leave her to dry then beat her to death in a dusty hut) then using low grade oil from Roccy genetics as a binder - hence the spicy, minty flavour I get from all of these hashes.
I've not come across anything in the Rosin press that is cause for concern yet (from Boerejongens - not so Katsu with their burning tyre 'Kush Ice'), although Mowies nausea is up there ringing the alarm bells. I certainly experience the very same nausea effect when smoking a lot of low grade import (it happened to me last year in Marrakech) - Henna being totally obvious on the palette.
Re: Boerejongens
Hmm interesting about the "binding agent bit" for two reasons.
(I) the dankest bubble hash I've ever procured was in the US (shipped out of Oregon), in the States bubble hash I got was always pressed (never saw crystals until I started frequenting coffeeshops and not here in Holland but rather in Barcelona), usually dense sticky, squishy and way more terpy and loud than any ice-o-lators around here. And this is the land where "we care and nurture for every trichome" so I highly doubt these bubble-hashes were at all "cut", I could be completely wrong as I've never made bubble-hash, but this dodgy cutting business is certainly more of euro thing in my opinion...
(II) of that same merit the block hashes all have very much difficulty staying bound together in one coherent lump, and once it starts breaking apart, it is as you said quite difficult to press back together - even under immense pressure; which if we're for your argument's sake ignoring my aforementioned point, and given my sensitive nose's pick up of a bubble-hashy aroma in these block-hashes my money is on them being made from dutch-genetics cultivated en masse, outdoor on the slopes of the Rif mountains, and then water-extracted (rather than dry sifted), before being either bound with some binding agent that may be cannabis-based (non-psychoactive) or perhaps one of the commonly attributed techniques such as pressing with "tea stained water" (I've heard they do in Afghanistan), or adding ghee or something of that nature (I've heard this is done in the Rif, but could also be conjecture). I'm thinking maybe they're even being cut in NL or ES and then shipped between the two countries for export/vice-versa.
I've seen several posts on the Barcelona Coffeeshop Directory FB-page about these same types of hashes, and the pics look quite similar and even more strangely so are the purported prices - that leads me to believe that maybe they're being refined/cut/processed here in NL before being sent back to Spain (where they entered the EU as unpressed ice-o cyrstals), that could explain just why the fuck it's as cheap for said hash in NL as in Barca, bet again just wandering aboard this endless train of speculation...
(I) the dankest bubble hash I've ever procured was in the US (shipped out of Oregon), in the States bubble hash I got was always pressed (never saw crystals until I started frequenting coffeeshops and not here in Holland but rather in Barcelona), usually dense sticky, squishy and way more terpy and loud than any ice-o-lators around here. And this is the land where "we care and nurture for every trichome" so I highly doubt these bubble-hashes were at all "cut", I could be completely wrong as I've never made bubble-hash, but this dodgy cutting business is certainly more of euro thing in my opinion...
(II) of that same merit the block hashes all have very much difficulty staying bound together in one coherent lump, and once it starts breaking apart, it is as you said quite difficult to press back together - even under immense pressure; which if we're for your argument's sake ignoring my aforementioned point, and given my sensitive nose's pick up of a bubble-hashy aroma in these block-hashes my money is on them being made from dutch-genetics cultivated en masse, outdoor on the slopes of the Rif mountains, and then water-extracted (rather than dry sifted), before being either bound with some binding agent that may be cannabis-based (non-psychoactive) or perhaps one of the commonly attributed techniques such as pressing with "tea stained water" (I've heard they do in Afghanistan), or adding ghee or something of that nature (I've heard this is done in the Rif, but could also be conjecture). I'm thinking maybe they're even being cut in NL or ES and then shipped between the two countries for export/vice-versa.
I've seen several posts on the Barcelona Coffeeshop Directory FB-page about these same types of hashes, and the pics look quite similar and even more strangely so are the purported prices - that leads me to believe that maybe they're being refined/cut/processed here in NL before being sent back to Spain (where they entered the EU as unpressed ice-o cyrstals), that could explain just why the fuck it's as cheap for said hash in NL as in Barca, bet again just wandering aboard this endless train of speculation...
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OneHighMofo
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- Joined: Wed 25th Feb 2015 06:04 pm
Re: Boerejongens
For clarities sake - I'm not suggesting that all hash needs a binding agent - or that such an agent is a magic bullet in helping hash stay stable. Just that it would be a method of achieving some consistency in production. Certainly top shelf (nug run) bubble hash is less likely to need an agent to bind it. It's greasy enough to bind itself (for a time) - if that's the way the producer has prepared it.
Although 'pressed hash' is increasingly uncommon. Production techniques these days (in the US at least) would 100% ensure no-one is pressing anything - from a quality perspective it's frowned upon by the current 'masters of hash' Bubbleman, Matt Rize and buddies et al. In fact the leaders in the North American concentrates scene actively stay away from pressing in favour of using a chef's 'microplane' (or similar) to grate the frozen product as fine as possible in order to facilitate faster drying (to aid flavour). So I'd be 100% surprised to find any hash in the US bound with anything - agreed.
I'm not at all convinced however that the Bloc hashes are water extractions (bubble hasj - isolater, call it what you will).
For two reasons:
Firstly: Yields would be terrible comparative (we're talking 50% less - at least) to a dry sift unless the entire crop was fresh frozen at the point of harvest (and even then they would NEVER compare to the yield of a morrocan style 'sift' - beating would be a much better word). Which is highly unlikely given the necessary equipment and shift in thinking - plus it doesn't make much sense to a cash cropper producing a mass-market product aimed at the lower end of the market - and it's certainly a sea change for a farmer that's been producing Roccy hash in the traditional manner.
Secondly in order to produce said bubble hash from the metric tonnes of plant material that are obviously being processed to keep the AMS supply rolling - you'd need VERY big buckets, HUGE bubble bags and quite literally TONNE's of ice - not sure how that would work under a year round 30°c Moroccan sun.
Also - the product just isn't strong enough to be a water extraction. That's the biggest signpost to the production method for me.
Essentially - experience tells me that unless these crops and subsequent concentrates are being prepared in a climate controlled environment in facilities that would need to rival major breweries in terms of infrastructure in order to process the resultant material - logistically a water extraction is environmentally (and more likely culturally) impossible.
Although 'pressed hash' is increasingly uncommon. Production techniques these days (in the US at least) would 100% ensure no-one is pressing anything - from a quality perspective it's frowned upon by the current 'masters of hash' Bubbleman, Matt Rize and buddies et al. In fact the leaders in the North American concentrates scene actively stay away from pressing in favour of using a chef's 'microplane' (or similar) to grate the frozen product as fine as possible in order to facilitate faster drying (to aid flavour). So I'd be 100% surprised to find any hash in the US bound with anything - agreed.
I'm not at all convinced however that the Bloc hashes are water extractions (bubble hasj - isolater, call it what you will).
For two reasons:
Firstly: Yields would be terrible comparative (we're talking 50% less - at least) to a dry sift unless the entire crop was fresh frozen at the point of harvest (and even then they would NEVER compare to the yield of a morrocan style 'sift' - beating would be a much better word). Which is highly unlikely given the necessary equipment and shift in thinking - plus it doesn't make much sense to a cash cropper producing a mass-market product aimed at the lower end of the market - and it's certainly a sea change for a farmer that's been producing Roccy hash in the traditional manner.
Secondly in order to produce said bubble hash from the metric tonnes of plant material that are obviously being processed to keep the AMS supply rolling - you'd need VERY big buckets, HUGE bubble bags and quite literally TONNE's of ice - not sure how that would work under a year round 30°c Moroccan sun.
Also - the product just isn't strong enough to be a water extraction. That's the biggest signpost to the production method for me.
Essentially - experience tells me that unless these crops and subsequent concentrates are being prepared in a climate controlled environment in facilities that would need to rival major breweries in terms of infrastructure in order to process the resultant material - logistically a water extraction is environmentally (and more likely culturally) impossible.
Re: Boerejongens
Well could dry-sift be re-"iced" like ran through some bubble bags on large scale, say after in was effectively smuggled into the EU?
If my last point holds any water, than just maybe it could be refined in a place like some Dutch warehouse belonging to shady organized crime figures with the budget to expend on abundant western novelties like coolant and whatever the hell else is needed to ensure a more industrial-scale production of such product. Of course this is all assuming my (potentially laughable) hypothesis that dry sift could be further refined by being ran through bubble-bags.
Maybe it is indeed just dry sift, but this stuff is different than previous waves of "US/Dutch genetics in Morocco stuff" that has been going aroud in 'Dam - the Amnesia Cream that has been on Utopia's menu for ages comes to mind, as do the Amnesia & Mexican Haze hashes that were on Eerste Hulp's menu for oh so very long, these hashes had a much more classic moroccan smell. Whereas as I've said it, and will say it until I'm blue in the face - the new wave of block hashes starting with the introduction of 1e Hulp's Kandy Kush back in February and onward is where things changed. From then on all the new strain-named hashes on the BJ and 1eHulp menus started to all smell remarkably similar to bubble-hashes (or what's been marketed to me as such) I've procured here, Spain and in the US - which is what keeps pointing me back to the ice-o-lator method. Also who knows if the profits are high enough they could perhaps even fund the means to produce enough ice for the job in the Rif. Hell if Dutch producers can source illicit endagered MDMA precursors from the rainforests of Thailand and then can mass produce and synthesize it into MDMA on a mass (hell global scale) then I think these same entities can pull of the logistics to mass source ice to just about where ever the hell they'd want no? Remember what you said about coffeeshops, organized crime, organized crime, organized crime - where the profit margins are high enough, there always a way... /hops off soapbox for dab *phew* /end rant
edit to add: the reason I think it's a mass-scale thing is that there's as I said lots of similar stuff floating around Barca at the moment from what I can gather via instagram and facebook. That makes me think this thing could be a concerted effort between several criminal groups pooling resources together. A few people I've talked to that come from higher rungs of the underworld between BCN & AMS, to be vague at best have suggested to me that a lot of these hashes are all flooding into the two cities from the same place, as I said something is very fishy about the similar pricing for the stuff between Dam and Barca (as Barca is always a safe bet to be much cheaper, especially for Moroccan-grown hash), which yet again screams organized crime to me. But maybe I should get some damn sleep, because I'm seriously rambling now. Peace all!
If my last point holds any water, than just maybe it could be refined in a place like some Dutch warehouse belonging to shady organized crime figures with the budget to expend on abundant western novelties like coolant and whatever the hell else is needed to ensure a more industrial-scale production of such product. Of course this is all assuming my (potentially laughable) hypothesis that dry sift could be further refined by being ran through bubble-bags.
Maybe it is indeed just dry sift, but this stuff is different than previous waves of "US/Dutch genetics in Morocco stuff" that has been going aroud in 'Dam - the Amnesia Cream that has been on Utopia's menu for ages comes to mind, as do the Amnesia & Mexican Haze hashes that were on Eerste Hulp's menu for oh so very long, these hashes had a much more classic moroccan smell. Whereas as I've said it, and will say it until I'm blue in the face - the new wave of block hashes starting with the introduction of 1e Hulp's Kandy Kush back in February and onward is where things changed. From then on all the new strain-named hashes on the BJ and 1eHulp menus started to all smell remarkably similar to bubble-hashes (or what's been marketed to me as such) I've procured here, Spain and in the US - which is what keeps pointing me back to the ice-o-lator method. Also who knows if the profits are high enough they could perhaps even fund the means to produce enough ice for the job in the Rif. Hell if Dutch producers can source illicit endagered MDMA precursors from the rainforests of Thailand and then can mass produce and synthesize it into MDMA on a mass (hell global scale) then I think these same entities can pull of the logistics to mass source ice to just about where ever the hell they'd want no? Remember what you said about coffeeshops, organized crime, organized crime, organized crime - where the profit margins are high enough, there always a way... /hops off soapbox for dab *phew* /end rant
edit to add: the reason I think it's a mass-scale thing is that there's as I said lots of similar stuff floating around Barca at the moment from what I can gather via instagram and facebook. That makes me think this thing could be a concerted effort between several criminal groups pooling resources together. A few people I've talked to that come from higher rungs of the underworld between BCN & AMS, to be vague at best have suggested to me that a lot of these hashes are all flooding into the two cities from the same place, as I said something is very fishy about the similar pricing for the stuff between Dam and Barca (as Barca is always a safe bet to be much cheaper, especially for Moroccan-grown hash), which yet again screams organized crime to me. But maybe I should get some damn sleep, because I'm seriously rambling now. Peace all!
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OneHighMofo
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Re: Boerejongens
Technically - yes. You could freeze and subsequently water filter loose plant material. There are two main issues I see with that from a production perspective:DeLeuksteNUGS16 wrote:Well could dry-sift be re-"iced" like ran through some bubble bags on large scale, say after in was effectively smuggled into the EU?
1. Why would a producer do that? A loose powdered product would be more difficult to store, ship and smuggle than a stable block of hash.
2. Sifting then washing kief would have two main outcomes:
Firstly: it would certainly result in a much lower potency product than either technique used in isolation, and secondly the additional processing would mean a large percentage of extra 'film losses' to the farmer. Further reducing the yield. When you add the expense and size of the necessary infrastructure ....
Although it's technically possible - it doesn't make any sense as a production method.
I'm convinced these Block hashes are presses bound with cheap oil - nothing else makes any sense in terms of the cultural traditional methods used bu the farmers in the region they're made and in production/shipping logistics or with regards the potency of the final product and its price point.
Re: Boerejongens
I agree. Production effort <-> price is the main point. Why do such "new school" hashes for 9€/g when you can sell "classic" import hashes at up to 15€?OneHighMofo wrote:Although it's technically possible - it doesn't make any sense as a production method.
I'm convinced these Block hashes are presses bound with cheap oil - nothing else makes any sense in terms of the cultural traditional methods used bu the farmers in the region they're made and in production/shipping logistics or with regards the potency of the final product and its price point.
Weed prices are up to 18€/g nowadays. I just can not believe they put a somewhat superior product on the market and keep the prices that low.
As I am the only on having nauseau or like effects, I guess we can ignore that. Will try it again with my last 0,5g of AK-OG today though. For science!
I think they are getting some "classic" roccan dry sift and some dutch genetics dry sift from marocco, mix it together in holland (30:70 ratio?!) and bind it with some stuff if necessary or to keep consistency at a certain level (side-effect: increased weight!).
different smell to the "classic" hash because of the "new school" dry sift then, but all in all not to expensive to produce.
I just ordered a hair straightener and some screens, definitely have to try this rosin tech myself, see if I can spot stuff hash or weed is cut with this way. Right now I'm assuming that if you use the "right" agent, it can "combine" with the rosin itself so that it's hard to spot in the product.
Hard to explain with my crappy english. Some oils can turn into some kind of resin when heated ("gumming")...
But on the other hand I trust DeLeuksteNUGS16, OneHighMofo and others who have done it before when they say they can spot if it's cut or not by rosin pressing it.
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OneHighMofo
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- Joined: Wed 25th Feb 2015 06:04 pm
Re: Boerejongens
That - is a really good question. And a huge signpost to the quality (or lack thereof)mowie wrote:Why do such "new school" hashes for 9€/g when you can sell "classic" import hashes at up to 15€?
Weed prices are up to 18€/g nowadays. I just can not believe they put a somewhat superior product on the market and keep the prices that low.
I've definitely experienced the effect from 'Kush Ice' bought at Katsu (and pressed into Rosin) - just not with the Bloc Hashes from Boere.mowie wrote:As I am the only on having nauseau or like effects, I guess we can ignore that. Will try it again with my last 0,5g of AK-OG today though. For science!
You should certainly spot any contaminants present in your hash much more easily in Rosin pressed from import than you would just by smoking the import in a traditional method (pipe, joint etc) Rosin tech while concentrating the cannabinoids and terpenes - ultimately concentrates the contaminants too.mowie wrote: I just ordered a hair straightener and some screens, definitely have to try this rosin tech myself, see if I can spot stuff hash or weed is cut with this way. Right now I'm assuming that if you use the "right" agent, it can "combine" with the rosin itself so that it's hard to spot in the product.
Hard to explain with my crappy english. Some oils can turn into some kind of resin when heated ("gumming")...
But on the other hand I trust DeLeuksteNUGS16, OneHighMofo and others who have done it before when they say they can spot if it's cut or not by rosin pressing it.
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RvanSteensel
- Posts: 1933
- Joined: Wed 15th Feb 2012 08:51 pm
Re: Boerejongens
damn you guys know your hashish lol
ive tried the KK from 1e, AKOG , and Kosher hashish , and i have to agree :
it doesnt have that same punching power as a rifman hashish .
Plus how the hell does it stay so moist , traveling from marocco all the way to holland ...
this stuff is fun too smoke nonetheless , but i guess dampkring still has better stuff
ive tried the KK from 1e, AKOG , and Kosher hashish , and i have to agree :
it doesnt have that same punching power as a rifman hashish .
Plus how the hell does it stay so moist , traveling from marocco all the way to holland ...
this stuff is fun too smoke nonetheless , but i guess dampkring still has better stuff
Relax and take notes , as I take tokes of the marihuana smoke
Re: Boerejongens
hence my theory that they "finish" the product in NL.RvanSteensel wrote:Plus how the hell does it stay so moist , traveling from marocco all the way to holland ...
yep, it's not that I don't enjoy these hashes at all.RvanSteensel wrote:this stuff is fun too smoke nonetheless , but i guess dampkring still has better stuff
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OneHighMofo
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Re: Boerejongens
In bubble hash - moisture is trapped by the fats and lipids in the waxy membrane that makes up the trichome walls. Eventually the moisture evaporates but that could take months or even years dependent on any number of variables: the properties of the material itself or the environment, how it's kept. how much surface area is exposed to oxidisation (air and light) etc etc.mowie wrote:hence my theory that they "finish" the product in NL.RvanSteensel wrote:Plus how the hell does it stay so moist , traveling from marocco all the way to holland ...
In import hash - there are all sorts of things that can and are added, amended, re-mixed to keep the product bubbly but stable. Henna etc etc
I'd be very surprised if the finishing was done in NL - why ship two unfinished products to a country where workers have rights and demand higher wages when you can ship a finished product from a country where farmers will beat hashish for a pittance? Organised criminals aren't known for their ethical employment or quality control programmes.
Re: Boerejongens
tweede kamer used to sell a nice variety of riffman hashish and waterworks iso's. Ive never encountered anything stronger and cleaner than that
Re: Boerejongens
Hi everybody,
imho boerejongens has always sold some not so proper stuff. From time to time the weed has a very chemical taste and tastes unflushed. If you scroll through the comments on these shops you will always find annoyed connossieurs with black ashed joints and strange taste.
Somehow I am going there from time to time too, I think its because of the hype or the prices. Last week I bought AK-OG and Super Amazing which both were excellent but maybe burnt a little bit hotter then normal weed?
Also the white guy with the rastas at boerjongens shortened me on 0.3 - will tell him next time.
And never try the tabacco cigar they want to sell you when you ask for tabacco. It is NOT rolling tabacco for joints!! Horribly strong, maybe they ripped me here too *rolleyes*
imho boerejongens has always sold some not so proper stuff. From time to time the weed has a very chemical taste and tastes unflushed. If you scroll through the comments on these shops you will always find annoyed connossieurs with black ashed joints and strange taste.
Somehow I am going there from time to time too, I think its because of the hype or the prices. Last week I bought AK-OG and Super Amazing which both were excellent but maybe burnt a little bit hotter then normal weed?
Also the white guy with the rastas at boerjongens shortened me on 0.3 - will tell him next time.
And never try the tabacco cigar they want to sell you when you ask for tabacco. It is NOT rolling tabacco for joints!! Horribly strong, maybe they ripped me here too *rolleyes*
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RvanSteensel
- Posts: 1933
- Joined: Wed 15th Feb 2012 08:51 pm
Re: Boerejongens
felixxy wrote: And never try the tabacco cigar they want to sell you when you ask for tabacco. It is NOT rolling tabacco for joints!! Horribly strong, maybe they ripped me here too *rolleyes*
you are supposed to empty those out and use the paper as a bluntpaper lmao
Relax and take notes , as I take tokes of the marihuana smoke
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Fat_old_dwarf
- Posts: 699
- Joined: Tue 24th Nov 2015 05:07 pm
Re: Boerejongens
By the way, there was a sign at BW that as of 16 May the minimum purchase will be 1g or €10. I don't suppose this will affect anyone here, as it's unlikely they're going all the way out there to buy half a g of something under €10, but still.