Page 1 of 2

Lies.

Posted: Thu 16th Apr 2009 05:15 pm
by Boner
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/fe ... 379418.ece
Recent evidence from police raids suggests that 80 per cent of the cannabis on the UK streets is skunk.
Lies.
And according to Professor Les Iversen, a drugs expert from Oxford University, skunk is around THREE times more potent than traditional cannabis.
I think the hippys from the 60/70's will say differant.
The traditional, weaker version of the drug – hash or weed – exists as dried leaves or a brown, soft resin.
Would be nice if the journalist did some actual research and not listen to what the neighbours dog said.
Skunk, on the other hand, is made from compressed flower heads, and has a fresher appearance.
As above.

I can't believe that a newspaper as big as Te Sun would print something that is so obviously not true, if it wasn't illegal I'd sue them for libel.

Posted: Thu 16th Apr 2009 05:18 pm
by darkglobe
What doya expect from that fuckin' rag :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

Posted: Thu 16th Apr 2009 06:29 pm
by lampshade
Would be nice if the journalist did some actual research and not listen to what the neighbours dog said.
:lol:

It seems that the general consensus in the UK is that anything green is called Skunk. My mate told me about his uni days, and how the skunk made him sleepy - I asked him what kind of skunk? He said green.

Posted: Thu 16th Apr 2009 08:14 pm
by HasAnyoneSeenMyPipe
Yep the sun are absolute idiots for jumping onto the demon weed doctrine. Total fuckers this Gov they gotta go.

Posted: Thu 16th Apr 2009 09:41 pm
by Ghost
typicall newspapers in the uk, same old lies and altering the facts and truth, printing the truth and what they about in matters like this.

Posted: Thu 16th Apr 2009 11:13 pm
by NirvanaEJ
its beyond untrue, her words dont even make sense, i mean yeah they are english and in cohesive order, but shes just spewing poo all over the place, ignorance is ugly

Posted: Thu 16th Apr 2009 11:45 pm
by Ingwey Gooblebogger
Quote:
And according to Professor Les Iversen, a drugs expert from Oxford University, skunk is around THREE times more potent than traditional cannabis.


I think the hippys from the 60/70's will say differant.
Here's the issue guys. What the prohibitionists, who use the "grass is now a an evil scary monster compared to lovable fuzzy pussycat of the 1960's -1970's, and so it is now dangerous to your health" type of argument, don't realize is that this is an argument in favour of the, supposedly stronger, newer grass, rather than against it.

Reason: Assume that their argument is true (This is entirely debatable, but I am using it as a device to show their argument is false).

If the grass is 3 times (or 10 times or 100 times, whatever bullshit they want to pass about) as potent as it once was, then, typically, it will take (1/3) (or 1/10th ,etc) of the amount of the new grass to get as high as from the old grass. Given that the only (and these would be very minor) health concerns from cannabis are due to the the snoking of the cannabis, then smoking less cannabis, but of a higher potency, would reduce health issues from the cannabis.

Since cannabis is not addictive (in the sense of physical addition, like that from opiates, cocaine, caffeine, tobacco, alcohol, and so on), then the tolerace levels do NOT rise sharply. Hence vastly stronger grass does NOT lead to sharply increased usage levels.

So, if the grass is more potent, it becomes less of a health risk.

Hence, their argument is bogus.

Spirits, such Whisky, Vodka, Rum, and so on, are, typically, 8 times as potent as beer, yet the media does not have headlines touting the dangers of this 8 times stonger booze. People, whether knowingly or not, titrate their dosages. That is, a person who would drink 5 pints of beer will only have a few ounces of spiritis. If they tried to drink 5 pints of whisky in one session, then they would end that session horizontally (and potentially in the morgue).

People, other than those in the media, are NOT stupid, they do NOT ramdomly consume drugs/alcohol with no concern to the dosage or their effects. Rather, we use them according to how intoxicated we want to become.

By the way, anyone can delare themselves to be a "drugs expert"*. There is no certification process to become one, so it is a meaningless title. Yet, the media search out these "experts" who tell them exactly what they want to hear.

Note: All of the toxicologists (* IMO, those folks could rightly be called drugs experts), that I have even spoken to (or worked with) still laugh at the way the media portrays cannabis as a dangerous drug.

Posted: Fri 17th Apr 2009 12:00 am
by NirvanaEJ
Hey IG, i see how you are trying to introduce logic, reason, and truth into the discussion, has that ever worked with these ppl? :?

Posted: Fri 17th Apr 2009 01:46 pm
by chilly1952
The problem is too many people believe this bullshit!

Posted: Fri 17th Apr 2009 03:41 pm
by Sir Niall of Essex-sire
chilly1952 wrote:The problem is too many people believe this bullshit!
The problem is with have no people in the public eye who adovact weed. America has countless amount of people, Ron Paul, Bill Mayher to name two. The campaign has no publicity and therefore bullshit like this is believed, the only way it will gain publicity is through protests and events and when was the last time we all went to a protest?

Keep an eye on the up-coming Pinkys Protest, then youll see why its not in the public light.

Posted: Sat 18th Apr 2009 10:01 am
by Ingwey Gooblebogger
Hey IG, i see how you are trying to introduce logic, reason, and truth into the discussion, has that ever worked with these ppl?
Thanks. I can't type worth shit, and I usually post in such a hurry (and in a stream of consciousness manner) that I never know if what I am writing is coherent, but I do try to be make logically valid arguments. (at least when I am not being a smart-ass. :wink: )

As I see it, those opposed to legalization don't pay any attention to science nor to logic, so rational arguments tend to fall on deaf ears. However, I do believe that honesty, rational arguments, science, and logic will win out in the end.

One problem is that there is so much propaganda out there and so much at stake for the prohibitionists that legalization will NOT come easy. The prohibitionists are very well funded, so their message gets plenty of coverage, which is seemingly unchallenged by the media. We are always having to refute their bullshit and the media tends challenge every point we make. That is okay because as long as we are honest and rational we can stand the scrutiny.

Having said that, I also think that the prohibitionists and media can get away with thier propaganda (not just in regard to legalization, but alos in many other regards) because most people have neither the inclination nor the will to examine the arguments made by the media. That means we have to wise up before we can rise up.

IMHO, a further problem with a large part of the media is that, in general, most people who become journalists are NOT analytical people, but rather those who can (or hope to be able to) communicate well. So, my view is that most journalists are either ignorant (some would call this view the overly kind one :D ) or they are liars, or perhaps both. Hence, they neither can nor will bother to investigate further to report an unbiased story.

I have ranted on for too long.

Posted: Sat 18th Apr 2009 02:17 pm
by NirvanaEJ
The media is starting to bend if not break, watch here as the prohibitionist contends legalization will mean 3 and 5 year old smoking up, and the rest of the panel laughs at him appropriately, what a douche. peace

http://tv.mpp.org/news/bruce-mirken-on- ... -04162009/

Posted: Sun 19th Apr 2009 07:41 pm
by Ingwey Gooblebogger
Thanks, Nirvana, that link had a good discussion.

However, did you notice the lady panelist’s hypothetical objection; That if they legalize marijuana then the gangs will simply move onto something else as their source of income.

That argument is hilariously bogus. To demonstrate this, imagine the following analogy:

- A panel of doctors has declared that, with 100 percent certitude, they have discovered a complete cure for all cancers. Then a journalist says, “well so what if you have cured cancer, we will just die of other causes”. :roll:

Another pet peeve of mine is that the prohibitionists point out that if we end prohibition that there will still be problems. Of course there will still be problems. To suggest otherwise is freaking sub-stupid!

It is a little bit of a stretch, but I compare this idea to that of creationists, who demand 100 percent proof of evolution before they will believe in it, and yet they have zero proof of creationism and expect us to believe their arguments.

Ending prohibition on alcohol, did NOT stop some men from getting loaded and then beating their wives, getting into fights, nor spending their entire paychecks at the pub (all issues which prompted the alcohol prohibition in the first place). However, those actions were taken only by a small subset of folks who drank booze, and they were twats with or without alcohol. Ending alcohol prohibition did not end wars, poverty, and so on, but those problems were well beyond the scope of the issue.

Posted: Sun 19th Apr 2009 09:40 pm
by NirvanaEJ
Ingwey Gooblebogger wrote:Thanks, Nirvana, that link had a good discussion.

However, did you notice the lady panelist’s hypothetical objection; That if they legalize marijuana then the gangs will simply move onto something else as their source of income.

That argument is hilariously bogus. To demonstrate this, imagine the following analogy:

- A panel of doctors has declared that, with 100 percent certitude, they have discovered a complete cure for all cancers. Then a journalist says, “well so what if you have cured cancer, we will just die of other causes”. :roll:

Another pet peeve of mine is that the prohibitionists point out that if we end prohibition that there will still be problems. Of course there will still be problems. To suggest otherwise is freaking sub-stupid!

It is a little bit of a stretch, but I compare this idea to that of creationists, who demand 100 percent proof of evolution before they will believe in it, and yet they have zero proof of creationism and expect us to believe their arguments.

Ending prohibition on alcohol, did NOT stop some men from getting loaded and then beating their wives, getting into fights, nor spending their entire paychecks at the pub (all issues which prompted the alcohol prohibition in the first place). However, those actions were taken only by a small subset of folks who drank booze, and they were twats with or without alcohol. Ending alcohol prohibition did not end wars, poverty, and so on, but those problems were well beyond the scope of the issue.

Another point that Bruce pointed out was that simply, the demand for those other drugs just isnt there. 15-20 million americans smoke weed every month, thats magnitudes more than the amount of users for all other drugs combined. Additionally I contend that the gangs are ALREADY involved in all those other things, at least by legalizing we remove 60% of the profit and make it that much harder for them to operate.

Yes drugs are dangerous, but so is drano, and i believe any 10 year old can go buy some, so these idiots can argue all they want about how its for the kids, but as we know dealers dont card, so its not about the kids...

Posted: Mon 20th Apr 2009 06:56 am
by Ingwey Gooblebogger
Another point that Bruce pointed out was that simply, the demand for those other drugs just isnt there. 15-20 million americans smoke weed every month, thats magnitudes more than the amount of users for all other drugs combined. Additionally I contend that the gangs are ALREADY involved in all those other things, at least by legalizing we remove 60% of the profit and make it that much harder for them to operate.

Yes drugs are dangerous, but so is drano, and i believe any 10 year old can go buy some, so these idiots can argue all they want about how its for the kids, but as we know dealers dont card, so its not about the kids...
That is true.

Prohibition of a widely used substance is a complete waste of time. The other drugs (heroin, cocaine. etc.) are in much less common use, so the police could spend their time going after only the hard drugs, if cannabis was legal.

But prohition does allow the gangs to profit, for any substance that is prohibited.

However, vis a vis hard drugs, in my view one way to cut-off the gangs at the knees is to view the drugs problem as a health issue rather than as a criminal one.

In my ideal scenario, drug addicts, whether heroin addicts or coke addicts or whatever, would come into a centralized offices (or mobile medical vans) and have a doctor certify that they are indeed addicted to those substances. Then, once registered, they could come in for their daily fix(es) under medical supervision.

I know that folks say that this would cost a lot of money, but the current system costs way more money. Right now, junkies have to steal, mug, rob banks, prostitute themselves, and so on to get their drugs. When a junkie breaks into your car to steal $0.20, you might have $200-$300 dollars damage to your car, and this is likely at, or under, your insurance deductible amount, so you are out a few hundred dollars. Similarly, when you are mugged, and so on. Also, since the government would be supplying the drugs (and buying them at pharmaceutical grade, in bulk), the gangs could not sell their drugs, since the prices would plummet. Furthermore, if no one is enticing younger people to use these drugs, (i.e. free sample of smack or crack from the gangs), we might be able to get a steep tapering off of the numbers of hard drug addicts.

I know that this is an "ideal-world" scenario, but anyone with experience in analysing/reviewing drugs overdose deaths KNOWS that the current methods of criminalising the users and cracking down harder on the gangs, simply increases the gang's profit margins and hurts the addicts. (and society, as the gang violence kills people, the addicts spread disease by needle/pipe sharing and prostitution, the public spends so much money policing the problem, and so on.)

Having a pure, clean, measured dose, taken under medical supervision, in a clincal environment, would also reduce the number of overdose deaths, as the users could be monitored, and dosages are measured and controlled. Some folks say the the addicted would not use such a place, BUT, most addicts would take the path of least resistance, so a free good supply would be AOK with them.

The one exception to this group might be those addicts who are also mentally ill, as their paranoia, might make them reticent to use clinical services. But we might be able to accomodate these folks, by also giving them some mental health care, and perhaps, anti-psychotic medicines.

My idea would require that many other facets be worked out. In any form, it would meet with tremendous opposition, but I do think we need to try new methods to try to solve the problem.

I have gone way off topic.

Later.