Tolerance Accumulation

Trichome_Dense · Post by **Trichome_Dense** » Mon 27th Apr 2009 04:04 pm

Totally agree on that point man... Tolerances are like your digestive system - Sometimes solid/sometimes liquid...

Stew1974 nailed it here.

TwoCanucks · Post by **TwoCanucks** » Mon 27th Apr 2009 04:09 pm

SoulRider wrote:No such thing as Marijuana tolerance. It just doesn't exist. Don't believe me? Then do what I did to prove if there is such a thing or not. I got absolutely wasted on weed every day over 420 (and I smoke all day everyday, anyway), so I did a test on one morning, after a severely heavy session the day before, and I rolled a spliff with less than 0.1g of weed in it. I smoked it, and got high. Now i didn't get HIGH, but I still got high. The fact of the matter is, the smallest amount of weed will always have an effect on you, but if you are already stoned, will you notice it? Also you get used to the sensation of being stoned, so you get used to it and begin to think it's normal (which incidentally is exactly what you are, Marijuana only restores your body to it's natural operating state). The problem is you become used to feeling like that, so you smoke more because you want to get higher. There is no tolerance and there is no OD limit. It just makes you feel normal.

Don't believe me still. Come to Amsterdam with me, I'll take you on a couple of days smoking, then we'll do the acid test, i'm sure you'll be surprised

I agree 100%... the truth in this logic resides in the fact that the THC remains in your system long after you smoke it.

smoking 0.1g would be enough to get even the biggest chronic smoker just a little buzzed or feeling a mild twitch. The receptors that react to the active ingredients in marijuana will have some residual leftover residing within themselves.... be it the day after a smoke session or a week without smoking.

TC

PS: i only play a doctor on TV

chilly1952 · Post by **chilly1952** » Mon 27th Apr 2009 07:11 pm

I find that my body/mind gets used to a specific strain after smoking it for a while. I can't argue with Soulrider about the morning buzz effect being the same at what I would call the low end of the buzz. Where I see the difference is how high I get after smoking the same amount of the same weed after I have been smoking it for a while. It seems like the more I smoke into a bag the more it takes to get me to the same level of buzz. Some of this could be related to poor storage. I find that changing the weed to another strain helps diminish the effects of this increased tolerance.

SoulRider · Post by **SoulRider** » Tue 28th Apr 2009 01:48 pm

The point is, there is no tolerance if 0.1g will get you high forever. Regardless of how subjective it seems, and in fact is, THC will affect you in such a tiny amount. Tolerance means that it requires more to have an effect. If you only ever smoked 0.1g in your spliffs you would still get the effects, therefore there is no tolerance.

When you are talking about how high you get, Marijuana stays in your system for quite a while. When we have serious smoking sessions we are still affected by THC 3 or 4 days later. Someone actually told me it was a lot longer than that, but until I hear from a more authoritive source I won't comment on that.

Also when smoking one strain of weed continuosly, you are going to become used to it. I don't mean tolerant, I mean when you are always stoned, you adapt your way of functioning to enable you to work better. This is not the weed affecting you less, this is you coming to terms with a way to function at that level of stoned or highness.

Also it is not only THC, you must also consider the other CBD'S and their varying levels

Trichome_Dense · Post by **Trichome_Dense** » Tue 28th Apr 2009 02:10 pm

Oh SOulRider - what can I say...

THC, its breakdown into CBD, CBN, CBG is way too geeky for us forum members who just wanna get high or die trying...

Now, I know about the breakdown of THC or THCV (medical grade) - CBD's - N's - G's... And tbh - they not only vary from strain to strain - but from plant to plant...

The THC/THCV/CBD/CBG/CBN contents found in strain listings are tested under lab conditions on a crop grown by a breeder...

These results serve as a very "loose" guideline as to how you will be buzzing and to what level, the strains medical properties and conditions it is known to ease (ie : Multiple Sclerosris)... They don't dictate your tolerance levels whatsoever.

In light of that - getting your tolerance lowered is a sublect of interest for many of us - And there are many reasons to consider why...

1 - Weed is not cheap, and smoking an Ounce in 4 days is not affordable to a consumer even if he's earning - say - £50,000 per annum. High tolerances can see Schmokers go through this amount no problem - but the dent in their pockets subtracts even more from the buzz they wish to reach...

2 - the health implication: Smoke is bad full stop - If I could have a choice of smoking 1 joint a day and being happy with that because it did the job as opposed to getting through like 10 joints in a day to reach the same buzz - I know which one I'd prefer - The single joint option

3 - The time constraint - Lower tolerance means you don't need to spend time rolling joints all the time, leaving you to get on with your day...

4 - A lower tolerance also means that you are not seen as an addict by those who matter in your life, you're seen as an occasional toker - like an occasional drinker... Which is acceptable in modern society

5 - A lower tolerance means - if you go without it - you go without it, you don't spend phone credit ringing dealers left right and centre in trying to get yourself a bit of weed, or bug your friends for that ever elusive joint...

6 - A lower tolerance also means - a better sense of taste and smell, in fact - your senses are a lot more normal in comparison to someone who reeks of Ganja... even tho they claim the chocolate they just eaten (munchies) tasted awesome - try giving a stoner Carrot Juice and see his/her response... lol

I could go on but I was on the PSP last night and my fingers are flat enough already... However, these are my reasons for having a lower tolerance.

If you can peeps - lower it - it only benefits you in the long run...

chilly1952 · Post by **chilly1952** » Tue 28th Apr 2009 09:49 pm

I still find the argument that we do not build up a tolerance to be lacking. Yes, we will all get a buzz from smoking that 0.1g of weed. The difference is that if I smoke that 0.1g I will get a mild buzz, if my wife, who seldom indulges, smoked that same 0.1g she would be knocked on her beautiful ass.

The effects or affect of cannabis is so varied and different for each of us but not so much as to explain the newbie’s whiteout when the rest of us are fine. Most of us would agree that when those dreaded periods of abstinence befall us, we find that the first smoke we have after knocks us on our butts after only a few hits.

The Chilly Theory:
Our bodies retain Cannabinoids as long as six weeks, even longer if you have high body fat. They are retained mostly in fatty tissue but I believe that some remain attached to the cannabinoid receptors in the body. These receptors that are throughout the body are what the cannabinoids attaches to when we partake. The receptors are like switches that trigger the body to produce the endorphins and other chemicals that give us the high. I theorize that these cannabinoids previously in the body use the receptors such that they are not readily available for the “new” cannabinoids entering the system. Since a percentage of the receptors are so-to-speak deactivated it takes a higher concentration of or prolonged exposure to the cannabinoids to achieve the same high as would be achieved if the body were free of cannabinoids. This creates the increased tolerance.

Now that being said, I am looking for a grant and an lot of weed to test and prove my theory.

Nickaveli · Post by **Nickaveli** » Wed 29th Apr 2009 08:23 am

I pretty much assumed that we build up a tollerance. I'll definatley be having a few smoking sessions before I go back to 'dam since I don't want to pass out after my first spliff.

SoulRider · Post by **SoulRider** » Wed 29th Apr 2009 09:16 am

Does marijuana tolerance exist?

Technically no.

Marijuana and LSD are the only drugs that you can't become physiologically dependent, and therefore you don't build up a tolerance for it.

However you can be psychologically addicted to it, so that's why people THINK they do and use more of it and increase the times they use it.

I know everyone's gonna downrate me and say this is a wrong answer, but I'm reading it straight out of one of my college textbooks, in a chapter on Psychoactive drugs.

Source: http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/15007

Also read this for information. This is a cut and paste of a High Times article from 1995, which was then posted on a forum. Here as an interesting part of the story, but the full story is on the link.

MARIJUANA TOLERANCE: EQUILIBRIUM, NOT ADDICTION

Research into drug tolerance is in its infancy. There are actually three forms of tolerance. Dispositional tolerance is produced by changes in the way the body absorbs a drug. Dynamic tolerance is produced by changes in the brain caused by an adaptive response to the drug's continued presence, specifically in the receptor sites affected by the drug. Behavioral tolerance is produced by familiarity with the environment in which the drug is administered. "Familiarity" and "environment" are two alternative terms for what Timothy Leary called "set" and "setting" - the subjective emotional/mental factors that the user brings to the drug experience and the objective external factors imposed by their surroundings. Tolerance to any drug can be produced by a combination of these and other mechanisms.

The conclusions of the researchers: "It would seem paradoxical that animals receiving the highest doses of cannabinoids would show the greatest and fastest return to normal levels [of behavior]; however, the receptor down-regulation in these animals was so profound that the behavioral correlate may be due to the great loss of functional binding sites." In other words, when the rats had had "enough," their receptors simply switched off.

HOW TO STAY HIGH: LESS IS MORE

The NIMH tolerance study confirms what most marijuana smokers have already discovered for themselves: The more often you smoke, the less high you get.

The dose of THC used in the study was 10 mg per kilogram of body weight, a dose frequently used in clinical research. What is the equivalent of 10 mg/kg of THC in terms of human consumption?

While most users are familiar with varying potencies of marijuana, many are only vaguely aware of differences in the efficiency of various ways to smoke it. Clinical studies indicate that only 10 to 20% of the available THC is transferred from a joint cigarette to the body. A pipe is better, allowing for 45% of the available THC to be consumed. A bong is a very efficient delivery system for marijuana; in ideal conditions the only THC lost is in the exhaled smoke.
Source: http://forum.grasscity.com/seasoned-tok ... rance.html

Now my point is you do not get tolerant to Marijuana, just the more Marijuana you smoke, the more of your receptors shut down. if you can't get high anymore, all you need to do is start smoking less and you will get higher than before. There is no tolerance at the scientific level, just an adaptation of the body to it's enviroment. This is achieved by shutting down cannabis receptors so there are less receptors for us to get high. To re-open these receptors, and to get really wasted again, smoke less weed. That is the only way to remove your 'tolerance', you will re-activate the receptors and you will get higher.

I do not agree totally with the last article, but I can't find the original study where I found out about the non-tolerance. It was a much more recent piece of research, around 2005 or so. If I find it I'll post it, but Tolerance does not exist.

stew1974 · Post by **stew1974** » Wed 29th Apr 2009 11:51 am

stew1974 · Post by **stew1974** » Wed 29th Apr 2009 12:04 pm

TwoCanucks · Post by **TwoCanucks** » Wed 29th Apr 2009 03:30 pm

Nickaveli wrote:I pretty much assumed that we build up a tollerance. I'll definatley be having a few smoking sessions before I go back to 'dam since I don't want to pass out after my first spliff.

Especially if you plan on having more than 0.1g in it!

Smoke up fella!

TC

chilly1952 · Post by **chilly1952** » Wed 29th Apr 2009 07:10 pm

I think we are doing some stumbling over semantics or overlapping definitions. Are we discussing tolerance, habituation, dependence or addition? Increased tolerance is a component of drug habituation, dependence and addition but they are not synonymous with tolerance.

Tolerance in our usage by definition:
Tolerance: The capacity of the body to endure or become less responsive to a substance (as a drug) … source: The Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Tolerance: The capacity to absorb a drug continuously or in large doses without adverse effect: diminution in the response to a drug after prolonged use. … Source: The American Heritage Dictionary

My point is that increased tolerance does not determinedly imply dependence or addition. The shut down of receptors referred to in one of SR’s quotes is by these definitions an increase in tolerance. Our bodies (or the lab rat’s) are less responsive to the substance. The textbook statement “…that you can’t become physiologically dependent, and therefore you don’t build up a tolerance for it.” is in my opinion a case of reverse logic and not valid. Tolerance can exist without physiologically dependence. Whether this tolerance is from psychological dependence or perception doesn’t matter if the result is a diminution is the response. Doesn’t our getting used to a specific strain over continual use by definition mean tolerance? Whether this is physiological or psychological is irrelevant.

hestia · Post by **hestia** » Wed 29th Apr 2009 09:54 pm

OW,OW,OW your makeing my brain hurt......Do this mean I ain't got no tolerence for smart talkin'

SoulRider · Post by **SoulRider** » Thu 30th Apr 2009 10:08 am

Tolerance requires that you need to smoke MORE of a substance to get the SAME effect.

With Marijuana, you smoke LESS of the substance to get MORE of an effect.

Do you see the difference? If you started drinking less alcohol than normal, would you get more pissed or less pissed?

Less obviously because of your alcohol tolerance.

However, with weed, if you smoke less weed, the more receptors are activated so you get higher.

This is not tolerance, this is your body's very own way of avoiding an OD. This is why you cannot overdose on marijuana. Your brain gets so high, then goes 'whoa shit, that's all i'm going to take in' and it shuts off the receptors so you don't take in too much.

If only every other substance was such an integral part of human physiology, we wouldn't get OD's.....

This point was proven to me the other week, and I told a lot of you at 420 about it too. This an an expereince of mine with Terminator just before 420....

I went into Basjoe's and saw my mate Carlo in there. He was celebrating getting a job, so he had bought a gram of Terminator.

He added tobacco to the terminator and mixed it up. He made 5 spliff out of it. Carlo and guy had shared 2 of them and they were not as wasted as we get by dabbing it on the spliff. Leo was sitting on the table behind us going, they are crazy, and they are telling me they are fine, they are high, but fine. I had to admit, they were talking fine and there was no issue. So I sat down with them, and playing chess and smoking spliffs, the pther 3 terminator joints were passed around. There were 3 of us sharing this time, each spliff having 0.2g in, and I gotta say, I know how lamps was able to bong for so long...

You hit a ceiling when getting high, when smoking the small amount of terminator, it gets you absolutely fucked, I think most people can agree on this. However, when you smoke a large amount of terminator, or what we would call "too much" what happens is your receptors shut down and you end up being very high, but still functional. That is the difference, and I must apologise to NYCBud here, for the comments about him smoking .5g terminator. Having smoked that much and seeing what happens, seeing the state of Carlo and guy, and having seen the results of Lamps bonging, I know this theory of 'Tolerance' to be true, because it has been my experience.

I have always posted about things on marijuana, things like tolerance and effects and so on, well now I am able to confirm or deny the scientific tests by performing experiments on myself with marijuana and reporting on my findings.

If you want to get high, smoke less weed. Seriously, get stoned very heavily one day, then smoke a light spliff the next day and you will be amazed at how high that tiny bit of weed gets you. Not higher than you were, but pretty close. Then you realise that the level at which the receptors get turned off, in results with how much THC etc, is very small. If you have the money and the ability, you could smoke .5g in a spliff of terminator and smoke 10 in a day, and at no time will you get any higher than you were after the first one. You cannot get any higher, that is the total opposite to a tolerance.