Adam fucking pissing me off

[redeyed]

Kingdoc Im afraid that that Limburg thing just looks like their way of lobbying for more policing money.

[Dambuster]

Yes fair enough there can be the typical arrogant and disrespectful tourists but in all fairness most of us arent and what would buissness be like if there wernt any tourists considering most coffeeshops say 90% of there business is tourists.

[Kingdoc]

Kingdoc Im afraid that that Limburg thing just looks like their way of lobbying for more policing money.

Yea this isnt finshed either way! its just like here in a way,Ie the cops start busting people so they can be seen to look buisy thus avoiding any budget cuts & so forth! like ive said before its motsly all "politics & money".

[toulouse]

I'm with Chilly on this one. Netherlanders will find a tolerant and reasonable way to deal with the social change. Why do I believe this? Because of a senior stoner experience. My wife and I arrived in Mokum in the summer of "68 on our honeymoon. I have been dancing with Shiva since "62 and we came to Mokum to find some hasj. But I digress. When we got to the city, there were young people flowing into the city from all over Europe and the US. Some cities had decided to confront the influx with police and force. But in Amsterdam, citizens chose compromise, control and tolerance. Kiosks were set up in Vondel Park and you could check your backpack and roam the city. Before 11PM, you could return to the kiosk, pick up your gear and sleep in the park. The next day, you cleaned up your site, checked your pack at the kiosk and enjoyed the day. There were only 2 officially recognized places to find the herb, the Fantasio and the Paradisio. But that's another story.

When others choose to confront and prohibit, Amsterdam chose to tolerate and compromise. There will always be a place in Mokum for those that are not in the mainstream!

[redeyed]

I would love to believe you toulouse but from where Im sitting lots of the locals have decided they want their city back.I cant really blame them as their reasons and logic for doing so seem credible.I mean who here would like a major tourist attraction on their doorstep?Let alone one that attracts so much negative attention (rld ).I really hope your right and the almost legendary Dutch tolerance wins through.I think within 10 years IF the same leadership remains the major player in Netherlands politics that coffeeshops will be limited to use by Dutch citizens or that they will just abolish the coffee shop.If that happens they will run with decriminalization instead which is already present in a few major eu countries.

[Sir Niall of Essex-sire]

I would love to believe you toulouse but from where Im sitting lots of the locals have decided they want their city back.I cant really blame them as their reasons and logic for doing so seem credible.I mean who here would like a major tourist attraction on their doorstep?Let alone one that attracts so much negative attention (rld ).I really hope your right and the almost legendary Dutch tolerance wins through.I think within 10 years IF the same leadership remains the major player in Netherlands politics that coffeeshops will be limited to use by Dutch citizens or that they will just abolish the coffee shop.If that happens they will run with decriminalization instead which is already present in a few major eu countries.

Its dangerous to assume a populations viewpoints on the basis of an influence from a political party. The locals vary in their views, generalising will never get you to the truth. Time will tell, we cant.

[redeyed]

No assumptions, this party their coalition partners and all of their agendas were voted in by the public democratically. In some cases yes it is dangerous to assume public mood.Only reason I commented in that sense was because this thread seems to be about where things are going/may go in the future.

[Ingwey Gooblebogger]

For now the pendulum has swung to the right. We have to trust the Dutch citizens. There are a lot of coffeeshops. I would think that from the Dutch perspective there are too many. I suspect that some of the CS owners themselves would like to see fewer shops in order to strengthen their business. Many of the border towns are overrun by over indulging tourists every weekend. Much of the annoyance of the Dutch towards the CS’s is our unruly behavior. In other words, we are bringing this on ourselves. We tourists have to remember that this is where the Dutch raise their children. I trust that the Dutch will allow the current political situation with the coffeeshops to continue until they feel the number of shops is what they feel it should be. Then the pendulum will swing back in the other direction.

First off, most dope smokers are NOT the unruly ones....that is the domain of the rowdy drunks. Do we hear any calls to close down the pubs/liquor shops in those towns? ......

I do agree that we tourists should behave in a reasonable manner. Cannabis tourists are a big target, for the xenophobes, so it behooves us to be especially civil. Afterall, we are likely to be blamed for the ill-behaviour of others, so to balance it out our behavior needs to be exemplary.

Also, in the border towns, the "foreigners" simply go into the shops score their dope and then get the hell out of dodge. So how is their bad behaviour being displayed? By leaving town in a quick, orderly manner?

The pressure, here, is coming from the tourist's home governments. The German, French, and Belgian governments are pissed off that their own cititzens are going across the line, scoring, and then bringing back dope to the home country. These countries, in turn, then pressure the Dutch border towns.

Secondly, in the Dutch term "drugstourism", the key word is tourism and NOT drugs. Tourism is a BIG industry in the Netherlands, and the Dutch are, if nothing else, pragmatic. They know that tourism would die if they closed all the coffeeshops, so no fear, the coffesshops will be around for quite some time. In an already bad economic downturn, kicking an industry down a flight of stairs is not a wise move.

Note: This does not mean that we can become complacent. We can hope that future coalitions are NOT lead by the right wing parties. As Milehigh noted, Dutch cannabists should be supporting the D66, SP, the PvDA, or other like minded parties, if they want to help ensure that the coffeeshops stay open.

Recent events (such as the van gogh and fortuyn assasinations) have turned many Dutch politically centrist folks to lean toward the right, but as time passes, we can only hope the affects of the propaganda which drove them to the right will have worn off.

That's my two cents worth.

[milehigh]

I'm with Chilly on this one. Netherlanders will find a tolerant and reasonable way to deal with the social change. Why do I believe this? Because of a senior stoner experience. My wife and I arrived in Mokum in the summer of "68 on our honeymoon. I have been dancing with Shiva since "62 and we came to Mokum to find some hasj. But I digress. When we got to the city, there were young people flowing into the city from all over Europe and the US. Some cities had decided to confront the influx with police and force. But in Amsterdam, citizens chose compromise, control and tolerance. Kiosks were set up in Vondel Park and you could check your backpack and roam the city. Before 11PM, you could return to the kiosk, pick up your gear and sleep in the park. The next day, you cleaned up your site, checked your pack at the kiosk and enjoyed the day. There were only 2 officially recognized places to find the herb, the Fantasio and the Paradisio. But that's another story.

When others choose to confront and prohibit, Amsterdam chose to tolerate and compromise. There will always be a place in Mokum for those that are not in the mainstream!

At the Paradisio the guys name was Pico. He sold hash out of the ice cream stand by the stairs.

Your letter has been used several times at very important meetings. In fact I would say it will influence policy over the next few years Toulouse.
Visitors to Amsterdam can make a difference in it's future with experiences and words like yours. Thank you.

Now let me get back to saving the coffeeshops for all of you.

[hippy_man99]

Does anyone wonder what would happen here in the Netherlands if the United States adopts a decriminalization, or even legalization and taxation policy within the near future?
It may be wishful thinking on my part but i've seen an ever growing tide of legalization talk, not only from activists, but news channels starting to discuss the issue. It's been brought up numerous times to government officials, citing specific facts which they cannot argue with...
http://www.norml.org

Would it be the downfall of Amsterdam? or would they revitalize the market in order to compete with the US...

just a curious scenario, if the dutch don't end up threatening their own tourist industry with the damn closings, they'd be threatened by outside competition...

peace,
hippy

[sh@dy]

There seems to be a general feeling among the population here that the coffeeshops and the whole marijuana decriminlization is going to dissappear.

I haven't seen you at any of the city council meetings, the Parool meetings, or any of the cannabis events. Where do you get your information?

How do you feel about D66, SP, and the PvDA? Are you farmiliar with their platforms? Do you know when the next election is? Did you know Burgermeister Cohen has backed off the closing and has the right to do nothing until after the next elections?

I think you peoples are very very ill informed. There is alot going on in Amterdam right now and there is no chance the Coffeeshops are going to close. Did you know there are licenses still available for coffeeshops?

There are no "new guys" running things. Geeezzzzz!!

I am only picking on you because you live here too. The other guys only know what they read and if you give them false information then it hurts us all Andy. Where did you get your "general feeling" at? I have never felt that and I am in the thick of the cannabis community here for years now.

good to hear, thx for the information

[stew1974]

milehigh

Now let me get back to saving the coffeeshops for all of you.

I must say Sir this is very big of you and a big thankyou from all of ACD. You Sir milehigh are singlehandedly saving the coffeeshops.

Yes admittedly the majority of cannabis activists, that i spoke to, in the Netherlands like you.
Would you like me to tell you the amount of cannabis actvists, that i spoke to, thought you were "not good for business" their reasoning being what Dutch council or Government official is going to listen to a hippy American who had only been in the country for a couple of years. They like your enthusiasm but when it comes to conversation leave it to them, don't spoil it for them.

[Ingwey Gooblebogger]

Does anyone wonder what would happen here in the Netherlands if the United States adopts a decriminalization, or even legalization and taxation policy within the near future?
It may be wishful thinking on my part but i've seen an ever growing tide of legalization talk, not only from activists, but news channels starting to discuss the issue. It's been brought up numerous times to government officials, citing specific facts which they cannot argue with...
http://www.norml.org

Would it be the downfall of Amsterdam? or would they revitalize the market in order to compete with the US...

just a curious scenario, if the dutch don't end up threatening their own tourist industry with the damn closings, they'd be threatened by outside competition...

peace,
hippy

Not to worry!

The Yanks will legalize grass some time after the first successful "sun landing" by NASA, so that gives the Dutch time to plan for such events.

The US is a VERY conservative country and it will take quite some time, if ever, for cannabis to become legal there.

I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news, but anyone who takes an honest and critical look at this issue can not deny that US cannabis legalization is a long way off. (Those of us in the choir dig the preaching, BUT the sermon has to reach the masses.)

[milehigh]

milehigh

Now let me get back to saving the coffeeshops for all of you.

I must say Sir this is very big of you and a big thankyou from all of ACD. You Sir milehigh are singlehandedly saving the coffeeshops.

Yes admittedly the majority of cannabis activists, that i spoke to, in the Netherlands like you.
Would you like me to tell you the amount of cannabis actvists, that i spoke to, thought you were "not good for business" their reasoning being what Dutch council or Government official is going to listen to a hippy American who had only been in the country for a couple of years. They like your enthusiasm but when it comes to conversation leave it to them, don't spoil it for them.

Quiting smoking not going so well? You slay me Stewster.

[USbongLord]

save the shops....its gettin much better here man..soon you can visit my shop...itll be called coffeeshop parasteltic aka basjoe baltimore and from 4 to 430 there will be two for one bong hits...might already be open,,,we dont know do we.....