I just wanted ask, as I work regularly in Germany, and am having problems getting my head round the fact that you can have your driving license taken away from you, even if you have smoked more than 2 days ago.
The cops also operate a Dragnet policy, so if your black, have long hair, look like a smoker, or even have a less than germanically perfect car, they can stop you. If they find over 1ng/ml of THC in your blood, your license is removed and given back to you after you have carried out drug therapy, a medical psychological test ( which is basically a brain washing process) and paid around 4000 euros for this pleasure. Fucking disgusting if you ask me.
i have done loads of research on these draconian German laws, but would be interested in hearing how tokers get round it.
Any thoughts?
BSH
Are there any Germans on this forum?
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BlueStarHaze
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Tue 24th Aug 2010 01:15 pm
- Location: Twente, NL
there is only one way round, dont let yourself get stopped.
sorry, no other good advice for this really.
dont drive by car into the centrum of the big cities and you should be ok.
the "problem" is, if you`re black with long hairs, many officers will have that "dealer-at-the train-station"-thing on their mind, thats very common here in germany.
when you get stopped just dont say anything about somking or other drugs, you never took any and dont have any interest...thats the best thing you can do, most people here get caught because they panic and start to talk when the police asks them some questions.
sorry, no other good advice for this really.
dont drive by car into the centrum of the big cities and you should be ok.
the "problem" is, if you`re black with long hairs, many officers will have that "dealer-at-the train-station"-thing on their mind, thats very common here in germany.
when you get stopped just dont say anything about somking or other drugs, you never took any and dont have any interest...thats the best thing you can do, most people here get caught because they panic and start to talk when the police asks them some questions.
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BlueStarHaze
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Tue 24th Aug 2010 01:15 pm
- Location: Twente, NL
thanks Shady...pretty shitty situation allround.
Annoyingly enough, I live in the Netherlands, am British, but travel over the border everyday to DE. Its SO frustrating to have the beloved herb everywhere, but not be able to smoke it.
I am, by the way, a white male, always wearing suit, and driving a nice car. Do the cops just stop people randomly, or is there method to their madness?
Do you drive and smoke regularly?
As a Grenzgänger I feel I may have to deal with the pigs at some point, so I only smoke when I know I dont have to drive for at least 3 days after.
insane laws in DE.
BSH
Annoyingly enough, I live in the Netherlands, am British, but travel over the border everyday to DE. Its SO frustrating to have the beloved herb everywhere, but not be able to smoke it.
I am, by the way, a white male, always wearing suit, and driving a nice car. Do the cops just stop people randomly, or is there method to their madness?
Do you drive and smoke regularly?
As a Grenzgänger I feel I may have to deal with the pigs at some point, so I only smoke when I know I dont have to drive for at least 3 days after.
insane laws in DE.
BSH
Ancora Imparo...
out of interest - what are the legal methods of the german police proving your mj use?
Bloodtests were mentioned. Surely this involves either arrest or consent? In ireland a doctor must take the blood.
Are they using road side testing in Germany? If so how does this sit legally with the facts that mj stays in your system so long? This is one of the main problems with introducing road side testing kits elsewhere, the legal issues of time and the scientific issue of reliability.
Would be interested in more details please. Cheers.
Bloodtests were mentioned. Surely this involves either arrest or consent? In ireland a doctor must take the blood.
Are they using road side testing in Germany? If so how does this sit legally with the facts that mj stays in your system so long? This is one of the main problems with introducing road side testing kits elsewhere, the legal issues of time and the scientific issue of reliability.
Would be interested in more details please. Cheers.
My 0.01 cent worth (fookin economy). 
From my experience, using blood (alone) to determine if a person is under the influence of cannabis at a specific moment or period in time is too vague, nearing the impossible to prove. A person can test 'hot' even after 30 days of consumption (50/25 nanogram threshold), a scientific fact. Given this fact, what legal/scientific grounds do the German authorities have in determining, through the use of a blood test (or any chemical test), that a person is/was under the influence at the time of arrest? No chemical test exists (that I know of) that can accurately determine if a person is under the influence of cannabis at the time the sample was taken, only the presence. I liken this to the old parentage test, it could only determine who wasn't the biological father (DNA testing has solved this problem).
No stretch of the imagination to state that authorities everywhere use stereotyping and profiling, so goes without saying. Example - who in the US is typically associated with the manufacturing and wholesale distribution of crystal meth? Bikers and White Supremacists. How does one identify bikers and whitey? (rhetorical question) Point made?
So, if the German authorities are focusing more attention on blacks with long hair who look/act like smokers, is there really a stretch to figure out why? Just because they are black? No. Because of the long hair? No. Because they look/act like a smoker, BINGO!!! Like it or not, appearance is typically representative of an attitude, and what better excuse to be judgmental (read ignorant)? Book and its cover and all that. Some just make it too easy. If it looks like a pig, smells like a pig, walks and talks like a pig, uhmm, it must be a pig, yes? Horse shoes and hand grenades. Ok, enough of the metaphors already.
It's all about attitude, always has been, always will be.
From my experience, using blood (alone) to determine if a person is under the influence of cannabis at a specific moment or period in time is too vague, nearing the impossible to prove. A person can test 'hot' even after 30 days of consumption (50/25 nanogram threshold), a scientific fact. Given this fact, what legal/scientific grounds do the German authorities have in determining, through the use of a blood test (or any chemical test), that a person is/was under the influence at the time of arrest? No chemical test exists (that I know of) that can accurately determine if a person is under the influence of cannabis at the time the sample was taken, only the presence. I liken this to the old parentage test, it could only determine who wasn't the biological father (DNA testing has solved this problem).
No stretch of the imagination to state that authorities everywhere use stereotyping and profiling, so goes without saying. Example - who in the US is typically associated with the manufacturing and wholesale distribution of crystal meth? Bikers and White Supremacists. How does one identify bikers and whitey? (rhetorical question) Point made?
So, if the German authorities are focusing more attention on blacks with long hair who look/act like smokers, is there really a stretch to figure out why? Just because they are black? No. Because of the long hair? No. Because they look/act like a smoker, BINGO!!! Like it or not, appearance is typically representative of an attitude, and what better excuse to be judgmental (read ignorant)? Book and its cover and all that. Some just make it too easy. If it looks like a pig, smells like a pig, walks and talks like a pig, uhmm, it must be a pig, yes? Horse shoes and hand grenades. Ok, enough of the metaphors already.
It's all about attitude, always has been, always will be.
well, they will stop you if you look like someone they are searching for.
that includes people who look foreign....if you`re white you dont face any problems usually, we have not been stopped a single time.
the only thing you should consider is, when driving into the big cities, dont do it when there is something like the "Weihnachtsmarkt" (christmas market), there they will stop people randomly. or when they search for a murder or someone else who got out of prison.
all in all, its not too hard for a white man here to have a blast and then drive......I wont tell you we have done a thousand times because I dont want this to get back to me sometime, but I smoke daily and have to drive to my work everyday, into a big city and I havent had any problems
that includes people who look foreign....if you`re white you dont face any problems usually, we have not been stopped a single time.
the only thing you should consider is, when driving into the big cities, dont do it when there is something like the "Weihnachtsmarkt" (christmas market), there they will stop people randomly. or when they search for a murder or someone else who got out of prison.
all in all, its not too hard for a white man here to have a blast and then drive......I wont tell you we have done a thousand times because I dont want this to get back to me sometime, but I smoke daily and have to drive to my work everyday, into a big city and I havent had any problems
as a truck driver it`s my experience:Dirty Uncle Ron wrote:My 0.01 cent worth (fookin economy).
From my experience, using blood (alone) to determine if a person is under the influence of cannabis at a specific moment or period in time is too vague, nearing the impossible to prove. A person can test 'hot' even after 30 days of consumption (50/25 nanogram threshold), a scientific fact. Given this fact, what legal/scientific grounds do the German authorities have in determining, through the use of a blood test (or any chemical test), that a person is/was under the influence at the time of arrest? No chemical test exists (that I know of) that can accurately determine if a person is under the influence of cannabis at the time the sample was taken, only the presence. I liken this to the old parentage test, it could only determine who wasn't the biological father (DNA testing has solved this problem).
German police stop people for no (obvious) reason
they have their own interpretation of the road traffic act...so you can be stopped for (almost) everything
and they are totally indifferent to common sense
so it`s more a matter of luck, than preparation or presentation ..
Amsterdam Viking warning .. ???
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BlueStarHaze
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Tue 24th Aug 2010 01:15 pm
- Location: Twente, NL
I would agree with the last poster from what I have read on the many German traffic and legal forums. The police here can do pretty much what they like. They can easily construct reasons why they have stopped you.
the German court ruled, that anyone with more than 1ng/ml of THC in their blood is unfit to drive a vehicle, and will get a fine, a 12 month driving ban, and will only be allowed drive again after completely a brain washing excercise in which you pay a psychologist to "prepare" (read tell you what they want to hear) you for the test, and the same company does the test with you. It is up to them if you pass or fail. If You pass, you may never be caught again with any THC in your blood, otherwise its the same again.
Fucking disgusting like I said, and resembles a Nazi procedure in many ways. You shall think like we want you to, or we stop your mobility.
Its basically a back door punishment, since Germany decriminalised consumption in 1994. To me, its against human rights.
For anyone who knows about THC, 1ng/ml can still be present upto 1 week afte smoking a spliff, and there is no way it is ethical to measure someones ability to drive on this measurement.
In Germany, anyone who is caufhr with hard drugs in their system is automatically classed as "characteristically unfit to drive a motor vehicle".
Sheer madness.
Anyway, its Friday again, and despite having a wonderfiul coffeeshop 10 minutes away i am driving omnday, so its no spliffs for me.
Fucking bullshit fascist German authorities.
BSH
the German court ruled, that anyone with more than 1ng/ml of THC in their blood is unfit to drive a vehicle, and will get a fine, a 12 month driving ban, and will only be allowed drive again after completely a brain washing excercise in which you pay a psychologist to "prepare" (read tell you what they want to hear) you for the test, and the same company does the test with you. It is up to them if you pass or fail. If You pass, you may never be caught again with any THC in your blood, otherwise its the same again.
Fucking disgusting like I said, and resembles a Nazi procedure in many ways. You shall think like we want you to, or we stop your mobility.
Its basically a back door punishment, since Germany decriminalised consumption in 1994. To me, its against human rights.
For anyone who knows about THC, 1ng/ml can still be present upto 1 week afte smoking a spliff, and there is no way it is ethical to measure someones ability to drive on this measurement.
In Germany, anyone who is caufhr with hard drugs in their system is automatically classed as "characteristically unfit to drive a motor vehicle".
Sheer madness.
Anyway, its Friday again, and despite having a wonderfiul coffeeshop 10 minutes away i am driving omnday, so its no spliffs for me.
Fucking bullshit fascist German authorities.
BSH
Ancora Imparo...
I was tested once, though I smoked a lot 2 days before the piss test was negative!
I m white, 42 years, nearly no hair left.
They said, my way to drive seemed strange, so they followed me.
If you loose your license its fucking difficult and expensive to get it back.
But I dont think that the chance to get caught is high, in Germany drive about 50 million cars.
I m white, 42 years, nearly no hair left.
They said, my way to drive seemed strange, so they followed me.
If you loose your license its fucking difficult and expensive to get it back.
But I dont think that the chance to get caught is high, in Germany drive about 50 million cars.
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BlueStarHaze
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Tue 24th Aug 2010 01:15 pm
- Location: Twente, NL
As for the comments on German police, no disagreement from me. However, could these same opinions fit many if not most law enforcement agencies around the world? In my 24 year military career, I've trained with many law enforcement officers from around the world and can wholeheartedly attest that these activities are not exclusive to Germany.badbone wrote: as a truck driver it`s my experience:
German police stop people for no (obvious) reason
they have their own interpretation of the road traffic act...so you can be stopped for (almost) everything
and they are totally indifferent to common sense
so it`s more a matter of luck, than preparation or presentation ..
As for luck vs. preparation or presentation, agree although with reservations. The duck and pig analogy comes quickly to mind. Who would most likely be stopped (read harassed) - Mr. Stereotypical Suit or Mr. Stereotypical Smoker? It is what it is. Suck is what it does.
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BlueStarHaze
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Tue 24th Aug 2010 01:15 pm
- Location: Twente, NL
For those who are interested, I had a lovely few spliffs this weekend, and got the lady to drive until weds.
Fuck the feds, I have the right to consume.
Apparently, for a more or less occasional smoker, 3 days wait until getting behind the wheel should be a safe bet.
Damn German police.
I really got the itch for some nice nepalese too on sunday, so might go in search for some in Enschede or Hengelo this weekend.
Damn i love living in NL. It is such a nice place to be.
BSH
Fuck the feds, I have the right to consume.
Apparently, for a more or less occasional smoker, 3 days wait until getting behind the wheel should be a safe bet.
Damn German police.
I really got the itch for some nice nepalese too on sunday, so might go in search for some in Enschede or Hengelo this weekend.
Damn i love living in NL. It is such a nice place to be.
BSH
Ancora Imparo...