Black Star

[skywalker]

Supposedly church smell was attributed to the late 90s/early 2000s "piff" aka "puray" "uptown haze" the signature strain that used to be legendarily peddled out Manhattan's Uptown (Harlem & Washington Heights) sector on the streets but was revered for its legendary potency and frankincense like odor.

People would flock from all over the Tri-State Area to cop the famous piff. Apparently there was a Florida connection somewhere in there as in people always talked about Domincian/Cuban groups pumping out of greenhouses in Southern Florida and trafficking it Northward up the Atlantic coast in fully-loaded semis ("lorries").

Dat Piff aka Da Church aka Frankie aka Puray aka that Uptown Wash Heights Haze from the Dominicano papi corner-boys sold by pre-bagged "dub" ($20 sack) or "dimo" (dimebag/$10 sack)

+1 Great post.
I'd assume that you could find a good analogue for 'the church' with any strain high in limonene, pinene and critically Phellandrene (so a bunch of hazes and certain OG lineage's). As it's one of the characteristic monoterpenes found in Frankincence

Honestly, in California OG Kush started losing that Frankincence scent and unforgettable flavor starting in 2006 when a couple of small time California growers started selling S1 seeds of the OG clone. The potency and trich production was retained, but the church scent and strong taste noticeably diminished over time. There are a few OG strains remaining that remind me of pre S1 OG, but those are few and far between.

IME, the OG being sold in Mokum (S1 I suppose), although potent, is no where near as church smelling as the buds from the original OG clone.

Edit: When I was in Amsterdam last week, Dampkring had Piff Haze on the menu, and at least for me, was impressively potent-one huge bong hit put me in an extremely meditative state for 30 minutes, before the second wave kicked in and I was suddenly motivated to vigourously walk a couple of laps around Vondelpark. Couldn't really tell if it indeed smelled like the Church due to the shop's effective filtration system, nor can I really taste weed with bongs, but it was a memorable high.

[WLow]

Frankie aka Puray aka that Uptown Wash Heights Haze from the Dominicano papi corner-boys

Lmfao that would be some crazy haze, i see the scene,we need to come up with more of theses names

IME, the OG being sold in Mokum (S1 I suppose), although potent, is no where near as church smelling as the buds from the original OG clone.

There is work on original Cali Og clone, but not sold in coffeshops lately that's sure, KarmaGenetics did really work with the hell's cut, his biker that evolved through the years, he released many steps of the making.

About your edit:I agree that amsterdams shops are great for the hazes, it will be most likely easy to find some great smoke and have a good time.

[Nuggz]

Frankie aka Puray aka that Uptown Wash Heights Haze from the Dominicano papi corner-boys

Lmfao that would be some crazy haze, i see the scene,we need to come up with more of theses names

IME, the OG being sold in Mokum (S1 I suppose), although potent, is no where near as church smelling as the buds from the original OG clone.

There is work on original Cali Og clone, but not sold in coffeshops lately that's sure, KarmaGenetics did really work with the hell's cut, his biker that evolved through the years, he released many steps of the making.

About your edit:I agree that amsterdams shops are great for the hazes, it will be most likely easy to find some great smoke and have a good time.

Those were just varying nicknames those names refer to phenos/genetics/strains which are well "old-school" by now this ain't no Cali tuna tin mafia shyte, not by a long damn shot.

[skywalker]

I forgot to mention that another trait of early to mid 2000s hydro Nederwiet was this shiny, snail trail of opalescent glue-like resin that covered many Haze crosses, and this snail trail was present even on the inside of a cracked open bud, so I don't think this was a result of tampering/visual enhancing. I've never seen weed, stateside, or Europe that possesed this look ever since.

What do you suppose this snail trail of a clear glue like substance is that covered hydro Nederwiet from back in the day? Because that is another clue to me that the supposed Dutch grown weed in shops currently is actually from somewhere else.

That my friend - is the mark of nicely grown, perfectly cured and well looked after (I.e. not bashed about) cannabis. Not all strains manage it - some are certainly stickier than others. But that gluey-goop you sometimes see when you rip a nug apart is quite simply trichomes stuck together forming resin. You'll sometimes see them on growing plants - clumped together on the outside of nugs like glistening diamonds - but they rarely make it 'to the bag'. Probably due to drying out and falling off.

*edit* I mostly notice this trait in hydro-grown product. Especially when it's come from a system like DWC or NFT and grown under medium-intensity, high efficiency lighting). There seems to be something about those methodologies that leads to very sticky product.

Most likely a constant and highly efficient uptake of nutrients affording rapid trichome development coupled with the lack of excess heat from LED or CMH lighting. Most growers over the past decade have been using 600 - 1000w HID lights 18-24" above the canopy as advised by most hydro-stores to maximise yield. Terrible advice. Literally cooking terpenes and cannabinoids off the plant.

Thanks for the insight, you seriously would be doing the worldwide cannabis community a huge favor if you posted your last paragraph on all the growing websites. They don't know about all the terps and trichs their crops are missing out on! The Bay Area dispensary weed I used to procure in the early 2000s used to stink through a glass jar and could be smelled from 2 rooms away.

[OneHighMofo]

Honestly, in California OG Kush started losing that Frankincence scent and unforgettable flavor starting in 2006 when a couple of small time California growers started selling S1 seeds of the OG clone. The potency and trich production was retained, but the church scent and strong taste noticeably diminished over time. There are a few OG strains remaining that remind me of pre S1 OG, but those are few and far between.

IME, the OG being sold in Mokum (S1 I suppose), although potent, is no where near as church smelling as the buds from the original OG clone.

Edit: When I was in Amsterdam last week, Dampkring had Piff Haze on the menu, and at least for me, was impressively potent-one huge bong hit put me in an extremely meditative state for 30 minutes, before the second wave kicked in and I was suddenly motivated to vigourously walk a couple of laps around Vondelpark. Couldn't really tell if it indeed smelled like the Church due to the shop's effective filtration system, nor can I really taste weed with bongs, but it was a memorable high.

Hey man - cheers for your input on this topic. Very interesting to hear the word from the horses mouth. Lord knows we've had enough debate on the topic recently it's nice to hear from someone with first-hand experience. It's especially nice to hear that there is still room for 'mom and pop'; even if they are at the top of the marketplace pricing. What is that pricing for 'craft cannabis' by the way - on average?

On the subject of 'that Frankincense' smell in Cannabis.
I have a Frankincense roller at the moment (it's an effective anxiolytic) and when taking a good whiff I'm struck by the astringent, what I'd call 'alcoholic' background odour underneath its pleasant and unique spicy and floral bouqet.

Recently I've been following the work of a Californian Nursery owner called Kevin Jodrey who is a chap that's been heavily involved in the industry for decades. He's currently embarking on a project to revive the glory of the early Skunk line, which he believes has changed fundamentally over the years; primarily due to prohibition.

He believes that a particular type of compound (Esters - alcohol at a molecular level) were bred-out of commercial cannabis in the late 80's and early 90's before todays highly effective odour control devices became readily available to growers; due to their incredibly distinctive and powerful aromas. The varietals of flower of the past that stunk out a whole house when an ounce baggie was opened in the kitchen that we just don't see anymore. Likely because anyone growing them BC (before carbon) spent time in jail. So they became less popular with growers for obvious reasons.

He believes that those powerful odour characteristics were due to these alcohols that are now missing from the genetic lexicon - and our conversation about 'the church' and Frankincense reminded me of his research and I believe the smell of 'the church' to be linked to the effects that Jodrey is describing; indeed I get the very same sensorial information from Frankincense that I remember from these older strains and sometimes still experience something very similar in very well extracted 'live-resin' BHO's - I believe due to the sheer concentration of terpenes which are themselves in the same class of compounds - non-polar solvents, essentially hydrocarbons - like gasoline.

Cannabis science is becoming mainstream, it's a double edged sword to some degree. The more we learn the more we lose to commerical gain. But it's a fascinating journey. I only hope past masters like Jodrey can retain the information, re-create the lines and bring back what's missing from todays commercial scene. Now that prohibition is starting to fade away; there's opportunity to bring back the glories of the past.
I think we all have our fingers crossed on that one.

My feeling is that the 'casual' end of the market won't care and will continue to roll onwards into mediocrity like Wine and many of the other hard-won luxury commodities of the past. Good - I care not. Let them wallow in shite. Send the good stuff to me.
To coin a popular phrase (ironically currently very popular as a hashtag on instagram among an audience that clearly don't): Those that know; Know.

Here's Jodrey on the subject:


Thanks again for your input - and if I haven't said so already: welcome to the forum

[Nuggz]

Honestly, in California OG Kush started losing that Frankincence scent and unforgettable flavor starting in 2006 when a couple of small time California growers started selling S1 seeds of the OG clone. The potency and trich production was retained, but the church scent and strong taste noticeably diminished over time. There are a few OG strains remaining that remind me of pre S1 OG, but those are few and far between.

IME, the OG being sold in Mokum (S1 I suppose), although potent, is no where near as church smelling as the buds from the original OG clone.

Edit: When I was in Amsterdam last week, Dampkring had Piff Haze on the menu, and at least for me, was impressively potent-one huge bong hit put me in an extremely meditative state for 30 minutes, before the second wave kicked in and I was suddenly motivated to vigourously walk a couple of laps around Vondelpark. Couldn't really tell if it indeed smelled like the Church due to the shop's effective filtration system, nor can I really taste weed with bongs, but it was a memorable high.

Hey man - cheers for your input on this topic. Very interesting to hear the word from the horses mouth. Lord knows we've had enough debate on the topic recently it's nice to hear from someone with first-hand experience. It's especially nice to hear that there is still room for 'mom and pop'; even if they are at the top of the marketplace pricing. What is that pricing for 'craft cannabis' by the way - on average?

On the subject of 'that Frankincense' smell in Cannabis.
I have a Frankincense roller at the moment (it's an effective anxiolytic) and when taking a good whiff I'm struck by the astringent, what I'd call 'alcoholic' background odour underneath its pleasant and unique spicy and floral bouqet.

Recently I've been following the work of a Californian Nursery owner called Kevin Jodrey who is a chap that's been heavily involved in the industry for decades. He's currently embarking on a project to revive the glory of the early Skunk line, which he believes has changed fundamentally over the years; primarily due to prohibition.

He believes that a particular type of compound (Esters - alcohol at a molecular level) were bred-out of commercial cannabis in the late 80's and early 90's before todays highly effective odour control devices became readily available to growers; due to their incredibly distinctive and powerful aromas. The varietals of flower of the past that stunk out a whole house when an ounce baggie was opened in the kitchen that we just don't see anymore. Likely because anyone growing them BC (before carbon) spent time in jail. So they became less popular with growers for obvious reasons.

He believes that those powerful odour characteristics were due to these alcohols that are now missing from the genetic lexicon - and our conversation about 'the church' and Frankincense reminded me of his research and I believe the smell of 'the church' to be linked to the effects that Jodrey is describing; indeed I get the very same sensorial information from Frankincense that I remember from these older strains and sometimes still experience something very similar in very well extracted 'live-resin' BHO's - I believe due to the sheer concentration of terpenes which are themselves in the same class of compounds - non-polar solvents, essentially hydrocarbons - like gasoline.

Cannabis science is becoming mainstream, it's a double edged sword to some degree. The more we learn the more we lose to commerical gain. But it's a fascinating journey. I only hope past masters like Jodrey can retain the information, re-create the lines and bring back what's missing from todays commercial scene. Now that prohibition is starting to fade away; there's opportunity to bring back the glories of the past.
I think we all have our fingers crossed on that one.

My feeling is that the 'casual' end of the market won't care and will continue to roll onwards into mediocrity like Wine and many of the other hard-won luxury commodities of the past. Good - I care not. Let them wallow in shite. Send the good stuff to me.
To coin a popular phrase (ironically currently very popular as a hashtag on instagram among an audience that clearly don't): Those that know; Know.

Here's Jodrey on the subject:


Thanks again for your input - and if I haven't said so already: welcome to the forum

Excellent post bro, thanks for that.

[skywalker]

Honestly, in California OG Kush started losing that Frankincence scent and unforgettable flavor starting in 2006 when a couple of small time California growers started selling S1 seeds of the OG clone. The potency and trich production was retained, but the church scent and strong taste noticeably diminished over time. There are a few OG strains remaining that remind me of pre S1 OG, but those are few and far between.

IME, the OG being sold in Mokum (S1 I suppose), although potent, is no where near as church smelling as the buds from the original OG clone.

Edit: When I was in Amsterdam last week, Dampkring had Piff Haze on the menu, and at least for me, was impressively potent-one huge bong hit put me in an extremely meditative state for 30 minutes, before the second wave kicked in and I was suddenly motivated to vigourously walk a couple of laps around Vondelpark. Couldn't really tell if it indeed smelled like the Church due to the shop's effective filtration system, nor can I really taste weed with bongs, but it was a memorable high.

Hey man - cheers for your input on this topic. Very interesting to hear the word from the horses mouth. Lord knows we've had enough debate on the topic recently it's nice to hear from someone with first-hand experience. It's especially nice to hear that there is still room for 'mom and pop'; even if they are at the top of the marketplace pricing. What is that pricing for 'craft cannabis' by the way - on average?

On the subject of 'that Frankincense' smell in Cannabis.
I have a Frankincense roller at the moment (it's an effective anxiolytic) and when taking a good whiff I'm struck by the astringent, what I'd call 'alcoholic' background odour underneath its pleasant and unique spicy and floral bouqet.

Recently I've been following the work of a Californian Nursery owner called Kevin Jodrey who is a chap that's been heavily involved in the industry for decades. He's currently embarking on a project to revive the glory of the early Skunk line, which he believes has changed fundamentally over the years; primarily due to prohibition.

He believes that a particular type of compound (Esters - alcohol at a molecular level) were bred-out of commercial cannabis in the late 80's and early 90's before todays highly effective odour control devices became readily available to growers; due to their incredibly distinctive and powerful aromas. The varietals of flower of the past that stunk out a whole house when an ounce baggie was opened in the kitchen that we just don't see anymore. Likely because anyone growing them BC (before carbon) spent time in jail. So they became less popular with growers for obvious reasons.

He believes that those powerful odour characteristics were due to these alcohols that are now missing from the genetic lexicon - and our conversation about 'the church' and Frankincense reminded me of his research and I believe the smell of 'the church' to be linked to the effects that Jodrey is describing; indeed I get the very same sensorial information from Frankincense that I remember from these older strains and sometimes still experience something very similar in very well extracted 'live-resin' BHO's - I believe due to the sheer concentration of terpenes which are themselves in the same class of compounds - non-polar solvents, essentially hydrocarbons - like gasoline.

Cannabis science is becoming mainstream, it's a double edged sword to some degree. The more we learn the more we lose to commerical gain. But it's a fascinating journey. I only hope past masters like Jodrey can retain the information, re-create the lines and bring back what's missing from todays commercial scene. Now that prohibition is starting to fade away; there's opportunity to bring back the glories of the past.
I think we all have our fingers crossed on that one.

My feeling is that the 'casual' end of the market won't care and will continue to roll onwards into mediocrity like Wine and many of the other hard-won luxury commodities of the past. Good - I care not. Let them wallow in shite. Send the good stuff to me.
To coin a popular phrase (ironically currently very popular as a hashtag on instagram among an audience that clearly don't): Those that know; Know.

Here's Jodrey on the subject:


Thanks again for your input - and if I haven't said so already: welcome to the forum

Thanks for the welcome my friend. You, along with DelekkersteNugs are a valuable asset to this forum with your vast wealth of knowledge on our fave pasttime.

As for prices on the boutique, high end of the cannabis market, they range in cost from $50-$70/3.5grams, $20/gram. So, basically, what it's always been in California if you don't have a private connect.

As for the terp profile on the top shelf weed here, there still a remains skunky element for many strains, especially for particularly well grown examples of OG.

[macky]

Nice thread Think buddy,s on point on the skunk smell thing . As guy who was into B.C. skunk early 80,$ ,it would stink hole house when you cracked a vacuum bag
I will also say early skunk and early girl had far more smell to it then today’s strains...plus big buds a little different and the northern......

[RvanSteensel]

gotta love Kevin Jodrey

[Jesscass]

December, 2018:

Despite knowing better and been to town closely before already, a couple of mates brought me round as well as paying for accomodation. Good start(am I turning into a freeloader?)!
Still I will avoid town that close to christmas or even during it in the future even though it has a certain atmosphere but way too busy for my taste.
However, special prize here for most corny christmas decoration outside of this shop. Was pissing myself heavily when passing by . Haven't been in there since ages and didn't change that as I know what type of place to expect apart from being shocked.
When recovered from that trauma I should reconsider a return for some outdoor though.

[deebzy75]

December, 2018:

Despite knowing better and been to town closely before already, a couple of mates brought me round as well as paying for accomodation. Good start(am I turning into a freeloader?)!
Still I will avoid town that close to christmas or even during it in the future even though it has a certain atmosphere but way too busy for my taste.
However, special prize here for most corny christmas decoration outside of this shop. Was pissing myself heavily when passing by . Haven't been in there since ages and didn't change that as I know what type of place to expect apart from being shocked.
When recovered from that trauma I should reconsider a return for some outdoor though.

why do you go to dam when all you do is slag it off?

[RvanSteensel]

why do you go to dam when all you do is slag it off?

been asking myself that question lol

[FlyByNite]

New menu for Black Star dated August 30, 2019. Thanks to Mat.

http://www.coffeeshopmenus.org/Blacksta ... kstar.html



Enjoy
FlyByNite

[AudioKush]

Menu update (27 Dec 2019)



For more menu updates check out www.audiokushhq.com

[AudioKush]

Menu update (14 March 2020)