The Plug (formerly Utopia)

[WLow]

canadian hate it, we better smoke some spanish weed

[Kermit]

Swerve the haymaker Tahoe and black water, will never forget that shite. Has the king of Cali released a bobble head yet? Not a king until you have your own bobble head.

And why is he called swerve, coz the fucker swerves answering why my seeds have hermied and why it tastes like hay.

You so easy

mashed cunt like kermit would be hollow.

i have some great san fernado valley, many help me

you may have great SFV but none are swerves, and too right I am mashed all the time aswell, what happens when you swerves his shite.

Enjoy you sfv hacks, my opinion of course.

[OneHighMofo]

there's an aesthetic, bud structure and aroma profile that I have not seen successfully replicated by UK, Dutch or Spanish growers.

and that my friend is EXACTLY why I won't touch it.
What do you think could be causing that very consistent aesthetic? Most of the imports I've seen have it: Tight and super compact flower structure, very few protrusions of brachts as one sees on the UK and Spanish grown versions of the exact same genetics (which I see a lot now).

I don't believe for a second that nug structure like that is coming from outdoor plants. And it's not like US growers have access to technology or techniques that the rest of the world doesn't. They have more space and a bit more legal wiggle room and get the genetic first - that's it. That's the extent of the head-start they enjoy.

In a 'career' now crossing decades I've never seen consistent aesthetics and structure like that across varietals. Not even from indoor grows where the same genus is grown over years.

I woudn't smoke that stuff without testing it for plant growth regulators. Because that aesthetic consisntency is pretty much the ONLY thing that would produce flowers that look that way. I've seen more grow-ops and the product from those ops than I care to mention. Never once have I seen flowers that looked that way. That uniformity of flower structure is exactly what PGR is designed to acheive.

So if it's not PGR. It's most certainly indoor grown. So again. Cali? Maybe - in some cases. Terroir? My arse. It's decent indoor (and that opinion is pending a PGR test). And I'd still not touch it because I don't want to injest cancer causing chemicals with my cannabanoids or pay more than £5 per/gram on the private market for something that cost less than £1 to produce.

I saw another community luminary slagging off US product this weekend. Frenchy Canoli, Cali resident - much lauded hash maker and industry darling is not at all impressed with the quality of the US flower market. Especially in California.

[DjShaggy]

anyone ever tried the jungleboys stuff?

wedding cake excellent
jungle cake excellent
mimosa excellent
cherry gelato excellent
z cake excellent

definatly no PGR's on these, they actually look like buds!

berner went to their grow and saw they use very basic nutrients. he was also clearly insulted when they said they would never use a trimming machine on any of their buds. marijuana mania on youtube, worth a watch.

i wont lie i wasnt a massive fan of their (jb) gelato's 24 &41 i tried...

paris packs (paris OG, GG4, hardcore OG, creme brulee) were all good and again all clean

the space monkey tins ive tried have all been PGR and none have been impressive, same with the big smokey tins.

cookiefam GSC burnt black like my soul.

and as for zkittlez, the best zkittlez i ever smoked was UK grown summer 2017 along with the tastiest 24k ive ever tried. both from birmingham.

theres definatly more but its fairly early and ive not had a good wake and bake just yet...

oh and the plug bcn beats the plug ams for all their variety hands down. although my membership to the plug bcn will be running out next month and i wont be renewing.

[DjShaggy]

and by purple chem do you mean the one thats at the top of 1e hulps menu and has been for ages? smoked it 2 weeks ago and found it bland to the taste. the ash wasnt clean white but it did burn ok so i smoked it anyway. not what i would call a €16/g strain.

[OneHighMofo]

Not tried Jungle boys personally - but I do think it’s hilarious that they’re put forward as Cali’s finest... they may well be, but they grow indoors, in rockwool cubes using bottled nutes

Now there’s nothin wrong with that- but if it ain’t from the earth - it could be grown in Barnsley and there isn’t a cannabis consumer on the planet that could spot the difference. So which is it? Is it indoor or outdoor Cali that’s ‘the best’?


Again - the American hyperbole machine is in full effect.

[Nuggz]

there's an aesthetic, bud structure and aroma profile that I have not seen successfully replicated by UK, Dutch or Spanish growers.

and that my friend is EXACTLY why I won't touch it.
What do you think could be causing that very consistent aesthetic? Most of the imports I've seen have it: Tight and super compact flower structure, very few protrusions of brachts as one sees on the UK and Spanish grown versions of the exact same genetics (which I see a lot now).

I don't believe for a second that nug structure like that is coming from outdoor plants. And it's not like US growers have access to technology or techniques that the rest of the world doesn't. They have more space and a bit more legal wiggle room and get the genetic first - that's it. That's the extent of the head-start they enjoy.

In a 'career' now crossing decades I've never seen consistent aesthetics and structure like that across varietals. Not even from indoor grows where the same genus is grown over years.

I woudn't smoke that stuff without testing it for plant growth regulators. Because that aesthetic consisntency is pretty much the ONLY thing that would produce flowers that look that way. I've seen more grow-ops and the product from those ops than I care to mention. Never once have I seen flowers that looked that way. That uniformity of flower structure is exactly what PGR is designed to acheive.

I should have said for certain strains - a lot the purple punch, gelato and cookie crosses have the dense bud (PGR) structure you speak of. A lot of the others I've received such as Now n' Laters; Lemonade; Slymer and Forbidden Fruit have been airier, or with nice calyx structure, semi-wispy - but most importantly have just been frostier and generally nicer looking and smelling than anything I've seen on this side of the pond, so that is also part of the "not seen replicated" (notice I didn't only cite 'bud structure' here but also aroma/flavor complexity), it's just how it is, only Canadian bud that I've seen has been on the same level. There's a few exceptions that have been on par, (never surpassing) - but those are few and far between.

So if it's not PGR. It's most certainly indoor grown. So again. Cali? Maybe - in some cases. Terroir? My arse. It's decent indoor (and that opinion is pending a PGR test). And I'd still not touch it because I don't want to injest cancer causing chemicals with my cannabanoids or pay more than £5 per/gram on the private market for something that cost less than £1 to produce.

Again not all of us have the circumstantial luxury of self-sufficiency, so we have to work with what we can.

I saw another community luminary slagging off US product this weekend. Frenchy Canoli, Cali resident - much lauded hash maker and industry darling is not at all impressed with the quality of the US flower market. Especially in California.

And what of it, does nobody ever bitch about quality in the UK?! Because I would think so given that they're the originators of the Cali-import hype-wave and paying pisstake prices. Long and short of it, I've learned that some stoners will always find something to bitch about regarding weed quality no matter where they are or what they're smoking, if people are bitching about quality there then you can multiply that amount by ten anywhere else in the world. Where exactly does Mr. Canoli posit has consistently better weed I'm curious to hear? I'll gladly pop a squat and bring the popcorn to hear that retort.

[OneHighMofo]

I should have said for certain strains - a lot the purple punch, gelato and cookie crosses have the dense bud (PGR) structure you speak of. A lot of the others I've received such as Now n' Laters; Lemonade; Slymer and Forbidden Fruit have been airier, or with nice calyx structure, semi-wispy - but most importantly have just been frostier and generally nicer looking and smelling than anything I've seen on this side of the pond, so that is also part of the "not seen replicated" (notice I didn't only cite 'bud structure' here but also aroma/flavor complexity), it's just how it is, only Canadian bud that I've seen has been on the same level. There's a few exceptions that have been on par, (never surpassing) - but those are few and far between.

That is good to hear. I just wouldn't 100% trust an(y) import market personallly.

And what of it, does nobody ever bitch about quality in the UK?! Because I would think so given that they're the originators of the Cali-import hype-wave and paying pisstake prices. Long and short of it, I've learned that some stoners will always find something to bitch about regarding weed quality no matter where they are or what they're smoking, if people are bitching about quality there then you can multiply that amount by ten anywhere else in the world. Where exactly does Mr. Canoli posit has consistently better weed I'm curious to hear? I'll gladly pop a squat and bring the popcorn to hear that retort

The point? I'm using these people as popular, in-situ examples of counter-arguments to the seemingly all pervasive assumption - actually I'm going to go with a more accurate 'mass delusion' that California has a golden skill-set and consistently produces 'the best'. It's an immature, hyperbolic and demonstratably untrue delusion created by an ideology of (sometimes unworthy) self-belief characteristic of the Cannabis community at large and perpetuated by an audience suffering with an innate inability to seperate hype from confirmation bias from placebo. It's mind boggling.

I realise and should clarify that you're obviously eschewing that belief and not contributing to the delusion, even in your support of the import market. Your written opinon has the balance I'd expect of your intellect. But I am also using the mutual respect our relationship affords as an opportunity to challenge the import narrative as far as possible and where necessary. Not just because I'm an asshole. But because an opposing voice is a necessary part of any debate. And I think this topic is extremely worthy of debate. Largely becuase I think any import market should be subject to rational scrutiny and sceptiscm. Drug dealers aren't known for their ethics, and these days they have a tendancy to dress like a medicine man while pissing down your back and telling you it's raining (no pesticides and PGR's though - defintiely not).

I'll always support the idea that any producing country/group/individual that's passionate, serious and above all ethical will be able to produce 'the best in someones eyes. But I'm resolute in my reasonably well informed opinion that this ability is 100% not down to locale when we're discussing a community that's obviously using the same indoor techniques, regardless their position on the planet.

As for where Canoli thinks 'the best' comes from. I don't know, his critique didn't go to such depths. (Edit - no doubt he'd say himself) Rather I'm recanting a flippant off-the-cuff remark about his perception of a recent decline in quality due to a raise in volume of production under licence (I'm paraphrasing).

I don't doubt what you're smoking is of value to you. I hope that comes across. Nor do I doubt your tastes as said before. But the critique I offer is intended to offer anyone concerned or interested in this issue some much needed clarification and a somewhat (I hope) balanced viewpoint. Why? Because hyperbole is a polite word for bullshit. And the world needs less of that. Especially gone unchallenged in black and white on the internet where anyone looking for confirmation bias can find it.

God knows there aren't many places where good information is availble. The least I can do is take some time to do my best to change that over a few dabs of a morning
(again - not challenging your position or quality of information per-se. Rather just using the opportunity to put forward an alternative narrative)

[Nuggz]

I should have said for certain strains - a lot the purple punch, gelato and cookie crosses have the dense bud (PGR) structure you speak of. A lot of the others I've received such as Now n' Laters; Lemonade; Slymer and Forbidden Fruit have been airier, or with nice calyx structure, semi-wispy - but most importantly have just been frostier and generally nicer looking and smelling than anything I've seen on this side of the pond, so that is also part of the "not seen replicated" (notice I didn't only cite 'bud structure' here but also aroma/flavor complexity), it's just how it is, only Canadian bud that I've seen has been on the same level. There's a few exceptions that have been on par, (never surpassing) - but those are few and far between.

That is good to hear. I just wouldn't 100% trust an(y) import market personallly.

And what of it, does nobody ever bitch about quality in the UK?! Because I would think so given that they're the originators of the Cali-import hype-wave and paying pisstake prices. Long and short of it, I've learned that some stoners will always find something to bitch about regarding weed quality no matter where they are or what they're smoking, if people are bitching about quality there then you can multiply that amount by ten anywhere else in the world. Where exactly does Mr. Canoli posit has consistently better weed I'm curious to hear? I'll gladly pop a squat and bring the popcorn to hear that retort

The point? I'm using these people as popular, in-situ examples of counter-arguments to the seemingly all pervasive assumption - actually I'm going to go with a more accurate 'mass delusion' that California has a golden skill-set and consistently produces 'the best'. It's an immature, hyperbolic and demonstratably untrue delusion created by an ideology of (sometimes unworthy) self-belief characteristic of the Cannabis community writ large and perpetuated by an audience suffering with an innate inability to seperate hype from confirmation bias from placebo. It's mind boggling.

I realise and should clarify that you're obviously not eschewing or contributing to that delusion, even in your support of the import market. Your written opinon has the balance I'd expect of your intellect. But I am also using the mutual respect our relationship affords as an opportunity to challenge the import narrative as far as possible and where necessary. Not just because I'm an asshole. But because an opposing voice is a necessary part of any debate. And I think this topic is extremely worthy of debate. Largely becuase I think any import market should be subject to rational scrutiny and sceptiscm. Drug dealers aren't known for their ethics, and these days they have a tendancy to dress like a medicine man while pissing down your back and telling you it's raining (no pesticides and PGR's though - defintiely not).

I'll always support the idea that any producing country/group/individual that's passionate, serious and above all ethical will be able to produce 'the best in someones eyes. But I'm resolute in my reasonably well informed opinion that this ability is 100% not down to locale when we're discussing a community that's obviously using the same indoor techniques, regardless their position on the planet.

As for where Canoli thinks 'the best' comes from. I don't know, his critique didn't go to such depths. (Edit - no doubt he'd say himself) Rather I'm recanting a flippant off-the-cuff remark about his perception of a recent decline in quality due to a raise in volume of production under licence (I'm paraphrasing).

I don't doubt what you're smoking is of value to you. I hope that comes across. Nor do I doubt your tastes as said before. But the critique I offer is intended to offer anyone concerned or interested in this issue some much needed clarification and a somewhat (I hope) balanced viewpoint. Why? Because hyperbole is a polite word for bullshit. And the world needs less of that. Especially gone unchallenged in black and white on the internet where anyone looking for confirmation bias can find it.

God knows there aren't many places where good information is availble. The least I can do is take some time to do my best to change that over a few dabs of a morning
(again - not challenging your position or quality of information per-se. Rather just using the opportunity to put forward an alternative narrative)

Well written and pragmatic response. I agree things do need to improve with regard to quality control, but until some better legislation gets put into place in the Netherlands I don't see that happening. Anyway, that or I need to get to a situation where I can indulge in the wonders of self-reliant gardening.

Happy blazing, stay crispy old friend!

[OneHighMofo]

Well written and pragmatic response. I agree things do need to improve with regard to quality control, but until some better legislation gets put into place in the Netherlands I don't see that happening. Anyway, that or I need to get to a situation where I can indulge in the wonders of self-reliant gardening.

Happy blazing, stay crispy old friend!

If only I'd managed to edit my typos and grammatical blunders out before you quoted me.
And you good buddy, take care.

[hestia]

Morning all
O.K. I get it
The Plug IS a leather club
It's just located in Amsterdam and a bit more expensive

[RoMoney]

I woudn't smoke that stuff without testing it for plant growth regulators.

I take it these are bad then? Are they banned from using them in veg for consumption?

It's an immature, hyperbolic and demonstratably untrue delusion created by an ideology of (sometimes unworthy) self-belief characteristic of the Cannabis community at large and perpetuated by an audience suffering with an innate inability to seperate hype from confirmation bias from placebo. It's mind boggling.

On the hype subject, this is something definitely spawned from Instagram. I had only ever heard of dropping beats, dropping bombs and sneaker drops (runners, kicks, trainers or whatever word you use). Then I went to Instagram and cannabis was dropping left, right and centre......and tags lines such as "be fast or be last fam". People post about their latest wares as if they are some limited edition Nike trainers with only 250 pairs.

Not sure if people are familiar with the website Hypebeast, but it's a kind of fashion and lifestyle website where you can get sneakers news on the latest collabs, limited editions etc. They are trying to follow the Hypebeast model with Cannabis now. Collabs and limited edition always cost a premium, so it's yet an other way of increasing profit margins.

[OneHighMofo]

I take it these are bad then? Are they banned from using them in veg for consumption?

As with anything there's some debate on the topic. Dependent on your location. But in Europe and the USA many are considered toxic.

Here's a pretty well balanced article on the topic.

[OneHighMofo]

Morning all
O.K. I get it
The Plug IS a leather club
It's just located in Amsterdam and a bit more expensive

I haven't been yet - but I'm getting the impression from its growing reputation of only having the import side of its menu stocked - it's more of a Pleather club

[RoMoney]

I take it these are bad then? Are they banned from using them in veg for consumption?

As with anything there's some debate on the topic. Dependent on your location. But in Europe and the USA many are considered toxic.

Here's a pretty well balanced article on the topic.

Fascinating read......could defo explain a lot.

However with the use of PGRs, growers can make an extra effort to ensure buds are compact, even if genetic and environmental factors are against them.