Virus

[CruMember]

Trump clearly still doesn't get it. Sounds like he has an army of experts trying to explain it to him but he still thinks it's a conspiracy by his political opponents.

...he doesn't want to get it! He only cares about his re-election campaign and doesn't want to show any sign of weekness or not to be prepared or able to manage the situation.
He announcend the EU-immigration ban all of a sudden without any exchange of information or alignment on strategies with the Europeans. The EU politicians were surprised and got angry. Ok, wouldn't say they're the most reactive on the crisis, but of course an internationally aligned strategy could help prevent things coming even worse. But Trump wants to pretend being the strong guy and best president by dictating the agenda and act independently and shows the EU the cold shoulder because his America and the president is the greatest, most fantastic and beautiful.
He doesn't care risking the lifes of thousands in his country and worldwide as the US might become the next epicentre of the outbreak/spread.
But also by this the pharma industry can make billions...

[CruMember]

Hi Folks,
Due to fly in from Dam from London Gatwick next Wednesday. Does anybody know what the situation is in the Dam with the coffee shops at the moment? Are there any restrictions on use of Volcano Vapes for example? If there is anybody there on the ground at the moment, would really appreciate some feedback on the situation?
Thanks

Yes the Dutch government has indeed issued a ban on “volcano vapes”

heeelp, can't breathe lmao!

[Marok21]

I wrote a short report about the situation especially in the coffeeshops in Den Haag and Tilburg this weekend:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=37124

[Marok21]

I started to wrote that a few days before but didn´t had the time to finish it so some things are not up to date anymore especially the situation in germany... sry

I'll tell you how things are going here in New Wuhan Italy. Only yesterday more than a thousand infections and 137 deaths! Since yesterday, all unnecessary movements are prohibited, the government appeals to our civic sense ... help! You have to respect a meter of distance in every commercial activity ... even with drug dealers! In countries, traffic has decreased by 80%, people on foot are avoided and very few. Today, working in the field of rehabilitation, I decided to close my business and the reason is respect for everyone's health. How is it going in Europe? Unfortunately for us Spannabis has jumped ... fingers crossed for 420!

damn sounds really strange I feel with you guys. Really crazy to see what that virus do with our society... in germany the fear is not really noticeable yet with most people in the daily life... well people try to clean there hands more often and that so on but there are still many people in
pubs, bars, restaurantes and so on... but that varies from region to region (here are also regions with many infected people). But I think the chance is very high that it gets much worse very fast also here in germany like in italy for example. Bad news comes in like every minute so I wouldn´t wonder if when it goes further like this the borders may be closed. Never thought that something like this could happen in the near future...

But on the other hand it seems like most infections seems to be very light or with no symptoms... while in italy it´s really crazy to see the numbers of deaths in germany some doctors say that possibly in italy are much more people infected as known and maybe the death rate is relatively low like in germany for example. Well that's actually all too theoretical for me... what I want to say is that the chance is much higher to get only light symptoms when infected than a major illness. We have to take special care on older people or people with health problems that they don´t get infected. Everybody has to look on each other and try to be as hygienic as possible to minimize the risk. Really hard times but maybe it´s
necassary to make it for example like italy at the moment (closing shops, 1m distance) for a hopefully short period of time to reduce the new infections. Furthermore the virus should get weaker when the temperatures go up so hopefully it gets warmer very fast...

@TransApenninesCouple and all others...Stay strong! We will make it through that shit! Even if someone of us got infected the chance is much higher to get only light symptons than a major illness.

Trump clearly still doesn't get it. Sounds like he has an army of experts trying to explain it to him but he still thinks it's a conspiracy by his political opponents.

Yeah! Also with the ban of flights from Europe to the US... he is only looking for a scapegoat like everytime I also read today that he tries
to get his fingers on a possible newly developed vaccine from a german company. He have offered a lot of money for it and wants that it´s only for the US if thats true that would show even more what a bad selfish stupid guy he is.
If there is a newly developed vaccine than it must of course be made available to all people... it always "amazes" me how you can think like that
idiot

[Lemming]

Don't want to get paranoid but don't want to underestimate this thing either. This is what I think we know:

Statistics

The numbers being published around the world are bound to be a bit suspect. In some cases due to deliberate manipulation but mostly because so much will be going under the radar. Both the number of infections and the number of deaths are likely to be higher than reported in real time. The full story will only be clear in retrospect when the history of this period is told by future generations.

Modelling

Modelling of a typical epidemic, not necessarily this one, suggest that around 80% of the population will be infected with around 1% of those being fatal. That means for a country like the UK, around half a million dead and well over a million in USA, for instance.

It's not in the interests of a virus to kill its host. If the death rate is too high then the virus will kill itself off. Nevertheless, the apparent death rate in Italy at the moment is more like 6%. If that is real and continues around the world then that doesn't bare too much thinking about.

Mild vs. Serious

We know that the chances of survival are much higher if you're young and fit. We also know that some people seem to experience relatively mild symptoms whereas others suffer much worse.

These aren't necessarily connected. Some older people appear to get a milder form and some younger folks the severe form for reasons that are not yet clear. Some of those with the more severe disease will go on to get complications, which can prove fatal. This is obviously more likely amongst the older and weaker population.

It may be too early yet to know whether those who survive severe disease will suffer any permanent lung damage.

In other words the threat to the younger population is smaller but not insignificant and not a cause for too much bravado and nonchalance.

Statistically each one of us individually is more likely than not to survive but we're all likely to know someone who won't make it.

Lockdown

The kind of knee-jerk reaction we're seeing in many countries is inevitable. Closing borders in January might have slowed it down a bit but seems futile now. Some of the other lockdown measures might buy us some time but I can't see how we can shut the whole planet down for very long. I think that can only be sustained for maybe a couple of weeks before we all go stir crazy.

Good News

Humans are amazingly resourceful and we learn fast when we need to. Behind the scenes and the mind-boggling incompetence of some of our leaders, no doubt some really clever people are working flat out on this. Closing borders may be of little use but the pressure on governments that leads them to take such actions might also drive them to throw all of our resources at finding real solutions.

Obviously the ideal would be that a vaccine is discovered, proved, manufactured in enormous quantities and distributed around the world within the next week or so. In practice of course, a vaccine is only likely to be ready for a second wave, at best.

Meanwhile, there are promising signs of improved treatments for the disease and new faster tests are coming on stream. Manufacturers are being encouraged to build ventilators.

United we stand...

[FODSmith]

United we stand...

But at least 1 metre apart.

[Smirks]

United we stand...

But at least 1 metre apart.

Unless there’s only one pack of bog roll on the shelf, in which case fuck that, we’re fighting for it.

[Comus]

United we stand...

But at least 1 metre apart.

Unless there’s only one pack of bog roll on the shelf, in which case fuck that, we’re fighting for it.

with no food left on the shelves then bog roll will become redundant pretty quickly anyhow

[Smirks]

Do I need to post *joke alert* or is sufficient when I’m obviously taking the piss..

[Comus]

i went for the double punchline but maybe you missed it

[DjShaggy]

jokes are meant to be funny

[Tokeing tom]

I laughed

[Lemming]

Black humour seems a reasonable reaction in the circumstances!

Meanwhile, I think mass testing is the best way forwards for the immediate future. At the moment we probably have people with minor colds hiding away whilst people with real Covid-19 are out and about spreading it around. We can't keep the whole world in lockdown for very long so we need to find a way of living with the virus.

Governments still in denial may be reluctant to test people because they fear what they might find and the consequences for their economies. As we've seen, that's a short-sighted strategy that only works for a few weeks before it becomes obvious that the virus is exploding through the population.

Korea led the way with mass testing. They started several facilities manufacturing tests early on. They also used some quite invasive tracking measures. This appears to have helped so far in slowing the spread. It's reduced the overload on their health system and kept the death rate there below 1%.

Seems to me that working in the dark puts us at a massive disadvantage. If we don't really know where the virus is then all we can do is to take extreme actions like closing everything down.

I'm a programmer, not a doctor, but as I understand it it's now possible to test for antibodies as well as the virus itself. I think that means that results can be achieved much faster and that it's also possible to detect those who've had the disease and recovered. That could avoid the issue of people believing they've had the virus and are now immune when all they've really had is a cold.

We have no cure and no vaccine but we do know how to test. Surely we should use that one weapon in our armoury to the max. If we could test the entire population every week or so then we could just quarantine those infected for a couple of weeks and release everyone else to get on with their lives. That should enable us to slow the rate of spread without the more random measures of closing everything down.

If you're an expert and can tell me that I'm talking bollocks then please do. Otherwise I think every company capable of doing so should be manufacturing tests is huge numbers. Of course, those capable of building ventilators, bottling oxygen and so on should also be doing that.

[FODSmith]

The UK isn't even testing NHS frontline staff. If Brexit made the world think we were losing it, this latest fiasco must given the impression that we're clinically insane.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... d-19-tests

[TransApenninesCouple]

Hi guys thank you for your participation and I'll update you from the black hole of Europe. Things are really very bad, there are many deaths, I have already lost people I knew ... We are all far away and we go out very little and fortunately we are allowed to take Tor out for needs but only near home. To get out of town we need valid reasons and the roads are controlled. If this is the right way to deal with the virus I do not know even if as a "medical means" I believe that in the end it will affect everyone and will lead to immunity of flock at the level world. The limitations on freedoms are heavy and people are changing, in the streets the few you see are all masked and there are too many vans of funeral honors ... what a sadness!