Cannabis: Another Thing Europe Doesn't Agree On
Europe has yet to come up with a unified approach to medical marijuana. The Dutch will tell you it is legal to use the drug to treat certain illnesses; while the Swedish don't recognize any medical use for cannabis at all.
"European policy is not really changing at all and I don't think this issue is even on the European agenda. The topic is too controversial and too political," said Catherine Sandvos, a legal expert for the Hague-based Cannabis Bureau, a Dutch national agency aimed at providing high-quality cannabis for medical purposes.
Ms. Sandvos's native Netherlands has led Europe when it comes to legalizing medical marijuana, which it treats separately from marijuana legally available at one of Amsterdam's famous coffee shops. The Dutch police stopped enforcing laws against marijuana in 1976 following an overall tolerance policy in the country. "It's hard when you try to explain to outsiders that it is illegal to grow cannabis in the Netherlands, but that it is tolerated to buy it," she says.
But those who buy the drug on the streets are not getting the quality severely ill patients would need. The Dutch government set up the Cannabis Bureau -- the only institution of its kind in the continent -- in September 2003.
"The state realized that so many people wanted to use cannabis, so it said 'why not give it to them via prescription instead of them accessing the drug illegally,' " Ms. Sandvos added.
The Cannabis Bureau ensures that patients who have a prescription from a doctor are getting marijuana that has been tested to make sure it doesn't contain any pesticides or bacteria. Not only does the Cannabis Bureau sell cannabis across all pharmacies in the Netherlands through a prescription, but it also distributes the drug to Italy, Finland and Germany through the Ministry of Health of each country. According to the agency's data, it sells around 100 kilos of cannabis every year.
The situation couldn't be more different in the U.K., where it is unlawful to self-medicate cannabis regardless of the disease people suffer from. In 2005, Barry Quayle and Reay Wales, who were both afflicted by serious and chronic conditions, found no relief in prescription drugs and turned to cannabis to alleviate their pain. But a U.K. court ruled against them.
"The whole debate in relation to the use of cannabis for medical purposes is highly politicized," said Daniel Godden, an associate solicitor for Hodge Jones & Allen LLP in London. Those who say marijuana is relatively safe can face severe political consequences. Last month, Professor David Nutt, the British government's chief drug adviser, was removed from his post after he said the drug was less harmful than alcohol.
Favorable views toward cannabis face opposition from some local politicians and international lobbying groups. Jorgen Sviden, director of Stockholm-based European Cities Against Drugs, which represents 261 cities in 30 countries, isn't convinced of the drug's medical qualities.
"In principle, we don't have an argument against cannabis as a treatment, but we haven't seen any scientific evidence that provides a convincing argument for its medical use," he said. "If in the future we come across proof that cannabis is a good treatment, then this is good."
Some initiatives have managed to stay away from the political debate, however. The U.K. happens to be home to GW Pharmaceuticals PLC, which manufactures a drug based on marijuana extract -- Sativex. Although it has some ingredients that derived from the actual drug, it has been treated by the U.K.'s regulators as a medicine like any other as it doesn't contain the psychotropic substances marijuana does. The company is preparing to launch the drug into other parts of Europe, in partnership with Germany's Bayer AG and Spain's Almirall SA.
GW is hoping to sell its product, which will treat the symptoms of multiple sclerosis, across all countries in Europe but has initially filed for a license in the U.K. and Spain so far. Paul Cuddon, an analyst with KBC Peel Hunt in London, says he expects the drug to win approval in both countries in the first half of 2010 and then the firm will file for individual approval in each country.
"I'm not anticipating any legal problems in the rest of Europe at all," Mr. Cuddon added. "This is a treatment that is highly different from raw cannabis and it has undergone rigorous chemical trials."
Other countries have tough stances, however. Ireland, for example, doesn't recognize marijuana as a drug with medical benefits. This means that manufacturing, producing, selling or possessing cannabis is unlawful for any purpose. The Ministry of Health is the only government branch that can grant an exception, but a spokesman said it never has.
Noel McCullagh, 34, has learned this the hard way. An Irish citizen, Mr. McCullagh lives in the Netherlands, where he uses cannabis medication to treat the severe effects of his muscular dystrophy. However, Irish authorities have warned him that he will be arrested if he enters his native country in possession if cannabis-based treatment.
In Sweden, the law doesn't recognize the cannabis to have any medical use.
Beyond the debate of marijuana's use, Dr. Willem Scholten, of the World Health Organization, believes patients should have access to high-quality medicine. So if cannabis has medical attributions, "there needs to be a system in place to ensure that patients get their medicine without any contamination and that they get the same content every time."
Despite the radically different approaches in Europe, some believe the continent will eventually adopt it as a medical treatment.
"I can imagine European citizens will eventually think cannabis is a good medicine and that it should be accessible to people who suffer from serious pain as a result of HIV, multiple sclerosis or other grave illnesses," said Brendan Hughes, senior legal analyst of the European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction in Lisbon.
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Cannabis: Another Thing Europe Doesn't Agree On
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Stanky Danky
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One thing I'll never understand is that it is legal to sell marijuana yet at the same time it is illegal to grow in Amsterdam. Where are the coffeeshops suppose to get their weed? It makes absolutely no sense. They should at least issue special licenses to the coffeeshops to grow. I found a video on youtube that I thought was pretty ironic. A marijuana grow op is being busted right above a coffeeshop where you can buy weed legally. The video is also quite humorous. It reminds me of that old video where an endless number of clowns keep piling out of the VW beetle. The plants are being thrown out a window into a dumptruck and their are so many plants it's hard to believe they all fit in the building. Here's the link if you want a good laugh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOBlq3Nr2Mo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOBlq3Nr2Mo
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spidergawd
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Yes its a complete mess here, no significant political grouping in Europe have it on their agenda, and the EU just keeps on "fact finding" and "studying various aspects" etc. what I call kicking it into the long grass. Strange coincidence, when I was in Amsterdam in October at a M&G at 420/DeKuil with afew ACD'ers. Cisco, Willjay, SocratesFriend and their partners and pals, what should walk in a fill the place up was an EU fact finding delegation, honestly there must have been 25 or so with their hangers on, it was really weird a bit like being on the other side of the fence at the zoo 
anyway I spoke to a few of them, A) they were amazed that any one in that smokey darkness could actually communicate,B) they were politico's so other than to say who they were I couldn't draw them on any thing interesting. I think the rather attractive Swedish MP I was talking to figured I was chatting her up, but honestly I'm just a natural flirt and completely liberated from all that stuff, maybe. 
Blue Skies.
anyway I spoke to a few of them, A) they were amazed that any one in that smokey darkness could actually communicate,B) they were politico's so other than to say who they were I couldn't draw them on any thing interesting. I think the rather attractive Swedish MP I was talking to figured I was chatting her up, but honestly I'm just a natural flirt and completely liberated from all that stuff, maybe. This is something that is particularly European I think, we think you shouldn't enjoy your medicine so out comes the Stone. I think getting high is what keeps me fit(ish).Some initiatives have managed to stay away from the political debate, however. The U.K. happens to be home to GW Pharmaceuticals PLC, which manufactures a drug based on marijuana extract -- Sativex. Although it has some ingredients that derived from the actual drug, it has been treated by the U.K.'s regulators as a medicine like any other as it doesn't contain the psychotropic substances marijuana does. The company is preparing to launch the drug into other parts of Europe, in partnership with Germany's Bayer AG and Spain's Almirall SA.
Blue Skies.
What a long strange trip it is.
I agree with you, however, remember its not legal to sell cannabis here.Stanky Danky wrote:One thing I'll never understand is that it is legal to sell marijuana yet at the same time it is illegal to grow in Amsterdam. Where are the coffeeshops suppose to get their weed? It makes absolutely no sense. They should at least issue special licenses to the coffeeshops to grow. I found a video on youtube that I thought was pretty ironic. A marijuana grow op is being busted right above a coffeeshop where you can buy weed legally. The video is also quite humorous. It reminds me of that old video where an endless number of clowns keep piling out of the VW beetle. The plants are being thrown out a window into a dumptruck and their are so many plants it's hard to believe they all fit in the building. Here's the link if you want a good laugh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOBlq3Nr2Mo
Regardless, they have set up a system that invites organized crime and they get what they asked for.
seems to me that organised crime and drug "problems" are more than welcomed by politicians. its something to make policy about.Marco wrote:
I agree with you, however, remember its not legal to sell cannabis here.
Regardless, they have set up a system that invites organized crime and they get what they asked for.
what would be more useful when electioneering? what else could they use to scare people so effectively?
wont someone think of the children?? think of the children!!
hysterical uninformed parents, they should be the targets of truthful marijuana education. unfortunately much of what is written on the subject simply preaches to the converted and nobody else.
What Dutch parents are you talking about? Remember, the Dutch are pragmatists. The issue with the border CS are about relations with the EU and have nothing to do with children.colinzeal wrote:seems to me that organised crime and drug "problems" are more than welcomed by politicians. its something to make policy about.Marco wrote:
I agree with you, however, remember its not legal to sell cannabis here.
Regardless, they have set up a system that invites organized crime and they get what they asked for.
what would be more useful when electioneering? what else could they use to scare people so effectively?
wont someone think of the children?? think of the children!!
hysterical uninformed parents, they should be the targets of truthful marijuana education. unfortunately much of what is written on the subject simply preaches to the converted and nobody else.
I don't pretend to understand the politics here but I am learning. But no country wants to be knows as a center for for narco-tourism.
What people are scared about in the Netherlands is not cannabis. Its local politics, Muslim influence, tax rates, the kilometer tax and the Queen.
I didnt say dutch parents, i just said parents. (we are in international and miscellaneous)
The issue is the same worldwide i.e. Politicians want problems such as organised crime and drug problems to campaign and legislate against. The minutiae may vary but the principals are the same. I was agreeing with your statement "they have set up a system that invites organized crime and they get what they asked for."
As for the dutch, well certainly they are pragmatic but also many are christian conservative. The christian conservatives are the ones pushing against cannabis. Presumably some christian conservatives are also parents, parents who have not been properly informed about the truth of cannabis and the reasons it is now entangled in organised crime. (if they were they would not support such silliness)
A truly pragmatic approach would not allow for the back door system because the practical application of this system is clearly negative and harmful. However you might argue that the politicians are being very practical in using the system of the back-door for their own means, i.e politicking. So imo the dutch government may have been pragmatic in the past and in the short term but the present situation does not show true pragmatism. As for the people, many may show a pragmatic attitude but the voters have chosen a government that does not.
The list of popular fears in dutch culture is rather interesting but hardly negates anything I am speaking of.
The issue is the same worldwide i.e. Politicians want problems such as organised crime and drug problems to campaign and legislate against. The minutiae may vary but the principals are the same. I was agreeing with your statement "they have set up a system that invites organized crime and they get what they asked for."
As for the dutch, well certainly they are pragmatic but also many are christian conservative. The christian conservatives are the ones pushing against cannabis. Presumably some christian conservatives are also parents, parents who have not been properly informed about the truth of cannabis and the reasons it is now entangled in organised crime. (if they were they would not support such silliness)
A truly pragmatic approach would not allow for the back door system because the practical application of this system is clearly negative and harmful. However you might argue that the politicians are being very practical in using the system of the back-door for their own means, i.e politicking. So imo the dutch government may have been pragmatic in the past and in the short term but the present situation does not show true pragmatism. As for the people, many may show a pragmatic attitude but the voters have chosen a government that does not.
The list of popular fears in dutch culture is rather interesting but hardly negates anything I am speaking of.
Off course all governments (and the law) live off of fear.colinzeal wrote:I didnt say dutch parents, i just said parents. (we are in international and miscellaneous)
The issue is the same worldwide i.e. Politicians want problems such as organised crime and drug problems to campaign and legislate against. The minutiae may vary but the principals are the same. I was agreeing with your statement "they have set up a system that invites organized crime and they get what they asked for."
As for the dutch, well certainly they are pragmatic but also many are christian conservative. The christian conservatives are the ones pushing against cannabis. Presumably some christian conservatives are also parents, parents who have not been properly informed about the truth of cannabis and the reasons it is now entangled in organised crime. (if they were they would not support such silliness)
A truly pragmatic approach would not allow for the back door system because the practical application of this system is clearly negative and harmful. However you might argue that the politicians are being very practical in using the system of the back-door for their own means, i.e politicking. So imo the dutch government may have been pragmatic in the past and in the short term but the present situation does not show true pragmatism. As for the people, many may show a pragmatic attitude but the voters have chosen a government that does not.
The list of popular fears in dutch culture is rather interesting but hardly negates anything I am speaking of.
But please don't assume its only the Christian Parties closing the coffeeshops. Remember, its Mayor Cohen, a PvDA mayor, who is leading the charge to close some CSes in Amsterdam, closed part of de Wallen and prohibited mushrooms.
And cannabis is related to some of those issues I mentioned about, because like everywhere else, elections here are decided upon a complicated combination off issues, not a single issue. And I do not understand why you think the voters have not chosen a pragmatic government? Do you know the government's stand on taxation, business develop, IT, intellectual property, etc? Some of it is highly pragmatic. One thing the Dutch I work with and know hate, is to have outsiders tell them their culture and economy is dependent on cannabis. They vote based a myriad of factors, I doubt cannabis in in the top 100.
Also, since the Netherlands has one of the lowest levels of cannabis usage in Europe, saving the children is not really the issue when it comes to whether to scrap the policy of gedogen.
The issue of cannabis is not the same in the Netherlands as it is in other countries. The issue is beyond health and 'children' here, and moves to foreign relations and crime. And as we both agree on, the crime issue is somewhat of their own making. But as long as this place is an oasis of cannabis tolerance in the EU, there will be criminality associated with exports.
I am sorry Marco but you are assuming that I was originally referring to only the dutch issues regarding cannabis. This article is about european attitudes to cannabis and that is what i was talking about; the general situation. I only mentioned the dutch in my second post because you mentioned them. I was originally talking about the broader political issue in Europe (and indeed worldwide) not the specifics of dutch society.
Saving the children however is clearly relevant to the policy of gedogen. This is shown by the attempt to move coffeeshops away from schools. As you are probably aware this is not being applied to bars where alcohol is being served (afaik anyway).
You seem to come at my points with oblique arguments. I did not mention for example the border issues I was simply speaking of the general distortion by governments and politicians of the truth in order to further their own political validity.
Broadly speaking imo the issue of cannabis is exactly the same in the Netherlands as elsewhere in as much as it is kicked around like a political football and the relative truths largely ignored.
Excellent point about Major Cohen btw further proving that not all Dutch people practice pragmatism universally with his entirely unpractical approach to prostitution. The proper pragmatic approach to prostitution I am sure you would agree would be to allow sex workers to run their own co-operative style brothels without the need for control by organised crime which he could have easily achieved by leasing the newly municipally owned buildings in RLD to them as requested.
Saving the children however is clearly relevant to the policy of gedogen. This is shown by the attempt to move coffeeshops away from schools. As you are probably aware this is not being applied to bars where alcohol is being served (afaik anyway).
You seem to come at my points with oblique arguments. I did not mention for example the border issues I was simply speaking of the general distortion by governments and politicians of the truth in order to further their own political validity.
Broadly speaking imo the issue of cannabis is exactly the same in the Netherlands as elsewhere in as much as it is kicked around like a political football and the relative truths largely ignored.
Excellent point about Major Cohen btw further proving that not all Dutch people practice pragmatism universally with his entirely unpractical approach to prostitution. The proper pragmatic approach to prostitution I am sure you would agree would be to allow sex workers to run their own co-operative style brothels without the need for control by organised crime which he could have easily achieved by leasing the newly municipally owned buildings in RLD to them as requested.
Obviously, I disagree with you on this. But i have to catch a flight to Berlin. And I will be voting in the next Dutch election on issues that matter to me, not just cannabis. The world is changing on this issue, and the Netherlands (in fact the entire EU) is no longer leading the way on this issue, its the US. The EU will eventually follow the US if thing proceed as they are there.colinzeal wrote:
Broadly speaking imo the issue of cannabis is exactly the same in the Netherlands as elsewhere in as much as it is kicked around like a political football and the relative truths largely ignored.
I disagree that the issues in NL are the same as elsewhere. 30 some years of tolerance must make it a different issue.colinzeal wrote:You disagree that the issues of cannabis are kicked around for purely politcal motives? That surprises me.
I am also surprised that you think I would believe that people only vote on cannabis issues, thats a little insulting tbh.
Enjoy your flight!
I did not mean to imply that or insult you, I know you don't think that. I just wanted you to understand that the Dutch really don't think about cannabis that much, whether in their daily lives or in the voting booth. So you are right, it is an issue of politicians, but the arguments are different from other places I have lived.
Again, there was no intention to insult you. I do have to run. Peace.
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Sir Niall of Essex-sire
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Re: Cannabis: Another Thing Europe Doesn't Agree On
Indeed, it is. I am from Romania, and here is the same. And I was the same opinion until a friend, at best, was found with MS. The BU treatment, so I understand, is a natural treatment with marijuana.Puffin13 wrote:Cannabis: Another Thing Europe Doesn't Agree On
Europe has yet to come up with a unified approach to medical marijuana. The Dutch will tell you it is legal to use the drug to treat certain illnesses; while the Swedish don't recognize any medical use for cannabis at all.
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Handcycle/Recumbent bikes
Researchers note that doses of cannabis (marijuana) have been shown to reduce the muscle spasms experienced by many people who have multiple sclerosis. The use of medical marijuana continues to be a struggle in the United States. Although it has been shown to be very effective in treating various diseases and illnesses, including chronic pain, nausea, glaucoma, seizure disorders, PTSD, cancer, diabetes, and others, many people risk arrest when they use marijuana for medicinal purposes. In October 2009, President Obama stated that his administration will not seek to arrest medical marijuana users and suppliers if they conform to state laws.
Although research indicates that cannabinoids offer benefits for multiple sclerosis patients because they can reduce inflammation and they have quelled spasms in animal studies, some officials, including regulators and researchers, have been concerned about the intoxicating side effects of THC. The authors of the recent paper, however, note that the combination of THC and CBD can limit psychotropic effects. They also note that the multiple sclerosis patients in the studies they evaluated generally well tolerated the side effects of the combined marijuana extracts.
Does anyone know more details?
PS: An amazing invention I have seen is the so called berkelbike, a revolutionary, award winning tricycle which can be propelled by both your arms and legs. The BerkelBike makes cycling possible despite MS, Polio, Spinal Cord Injury or Stroke.