Liberal Democrats drug policy

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Sir Niall of Essex-sire
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Post by Sir Niall of Essex-sire »

Pauli Wallnuts wrote:
Sir Niall of Essex-sire wrote:They probably wont win, but they can at least get a large opposition
if its a hung parliament, which it very well could be, then they will be the most important party in the uk, because if the party they make a coalition with doesn't take them & their policies seriously they can easily disband the coalition & allign with the opposition, this imo would be the best solution for british politics, labour & conservatives have had it way to easy for a long time
Good point man, hopefully we'll get a half decent result.

Its important to vote this time, spreading the word of mouth about the Lib Dems is important as well, hopefully get a few voters their that would of been their before.


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spidergawd
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Post by spidergawd »

Not quite of the "trenches" generation :lol: Demob baby 1946. I think they call us the baby boomers.

Actually the Tories have always had a lively "libertarian" wing, they think consenting adults etc. should make their own minds up how they get to Heaven or Hell. So who knows.
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hulldj
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Post by hulldj »

Sir Niall of Essex-sire wrote:
spidergawd wrote: this generation cant be arsed to go to the voting centre.
This could be down to education, I was unaware that our older generations fought for our rights to vote. This was never taught to me at school all them years ago.

I've never voted, not due to apathy, more because I had no understanding of the system (and still don't) and I didn't know it actually mattered to me. I also heard from a lot of people around me over the years that there was nothing that I could do , there is no point etc. However, things are slowly changing the older i get.

I feel a basic knowledge of politics should be taught at schools and wish i had an insight into what I'm now talking about. :lol:
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spidergawd
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Post by spidergawd »

hulldj, Well we already had the vote they fought for the freedom to continue to use it. I wonder can you teach basic politics at school? probably not much I dont think, yes to a few of course, but its pretty abstract and boring to most young people, to a lot of any people in fact. I guess its easy to cast non voters as lazy and thats true in a lot of cases..........I'm dribbling on again, :shock:

If somebody says they're gonna legalise Heb consumption.

I'd say VOTE FOR THE EM. at least once.
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Sir Niall of Essex-sire
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Post by Sir Niall of Essex-sire »

HullDJ - its a common belief that man, but i wouldnt stress it. Vote for the party who best represents you, the best example of basic political theories is the two cow example.
FEUDALISM:
You have two cows. Your lord takes some of the milk.
PURE SOCIALISM:
You have two cows. The government takes them and puts them in a barn with everyone else's cows. You have to take care of all the cows. The government gives you as much milk as you need.
BUREAUCRATIC SOCIALISM:
You have two cows. The government takes them and puts them in a barn with everyone else's cows. They are cared for by ex-chicken farmers. You have to take care of the chickens the government took from the chicken farmers. The government gives you as much milk and as many eggs as the regulations say you should need.
FASCISM:
You have two cows. The government takes both, hires you to take care of them, and sells you the milk.
BUREAUCRACY:
You have two cows. At first the government regulates what you can feed them and when you can milk them. Then it pays you not to milk them. After that it takes both, shoots one, milks the other and pours the milk down the drain. Then it requires you to fill out forms accounting for the missing cows.
PURE COMMUNISM:
You have two cows. Your neighbors help you take care of them, and you all share the milk.
APPLIED COMMUNISM:
You have two cows. You have to take care of them, but the government takes all the milk.
DICTATORSHIP:
You have two cows. The government takes both and shoots you.
MILITARIANISM:
You have two cows. The government takes both and drafts you.
PURE DEMOCRACY:
You have two cows. Your neighbors decide who gets the milk.
REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY:
You have two cows. Your neighbors pick someone to tell you who gets the milk.
AMERICAN DEMOCRACY:
The government promises to give you two cows if you vote for it. After the election, the president is impeached for speculating in cow futures. The press dubs the affair "Cowgate".
BRITISH DEMOCRACY:
You have two cows. You feed them sheeps' brains and they go mad. The government doesn't do anything.
SINGAPOREAN DEMOCRACY:
You have two cows. The government fines you for keeping two unlicensed farm animals in an apartment.
ANARCHY:
You have two cows. Either you sell the milk at a fair price or your neighbors try to kill you and take the cows.
CAPITALISM:
You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull.
HONG KONG CAPITALISM:
You have two cows. You sell three of them to your publicly-listed company, using letters of credit opened by your brother-in-law at the bank, then execute a debt / equity swap with associated general offer so that you get all four cows back, with a tax deduction for keeping five cows. The milk rights of six cows are transferred via a Panamanian intermediary to a Cayman Islands company secretly owned by the majority shareholder, who sells the rights to all seven cows' milk back to the listed company. The annual report says that the company owns eight cows, with an option on one more. Meanwhile, you kill the two cows because the fung shui is bad.
ENVIRONMENTALISM:
You have two cows. The government bans you from milking or killing them.
TOTALITARIANISM:
You have two cows. The government takes them and denies they ever existed. Milk is banned.
POLITICAL CORRECTNESS:
You are associated with (the concept of "ownership" is a symbol of the phallocentric, warmongering, intolerant past) two differently-aged (but no less valuable to society) bovines of nonspecified gender.
COUNTERCULTURE:
Wow, dude, there's like... these two cows, man. You have *got* to have some of this milk. I mean totally.
:lol:

I am interesting enough a R.E/Citizenship teacher. Which means i teach basic politics in schools and yes, it is difficult. :wink:
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spidergawd
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Post by spidergawd »

That made me smile. :)

Sir N wrote
I am interesting enough a R.E/Citizenship teacher. Which means i teach basic politics in schools and yes, it is difficult.

Well done Sir N. Its a hell of a job but someone has to do it I guess.
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Sir Niall of Essex-sire
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Post by Sir Niall of Essex-sire »

spidergawd wrote: Well done Sir N. Its a hell of a job but someone has to do it I guess.
Tbh man, im loosing faith with the profession completely. Im eyeing up social work masters course.
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Post by spidergawd »

Tbh man, im loosing faith with the profession completely. Im eyeing up social work masters course.
Jeez N, Frying pans and fires come to mind :)
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Sir Niall of Essex-sire
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Post by Sir Niall of Essex-sire »

spidergawd wrote:
Tbh man, im loosing faith with the profession completely. Im eyeing up social work masters course.
Jeez N, Frying pans and fires come to mind :)
Id rather be judged on my ability to help those in need, rather than help the majority pass an exam.
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spidergawd
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Post by spidergawd »

Sir Niall of Essex-sire wrote:
spidergawd wrote:
Tbh man, im loosing faith with the profession completely. Im eyeing up social work masters course.
Jeez N, Frying pans and fires come to mind :)
Id rather be judged on my ability to help those in need, rather than help the majority pass an exam.
Cool for you mate it was just a reaction related to the way the media loves to beat up on Teachers and Social Workers & etc. which I think is so destructive. I have a Social Worker Daughter and I've worked in the area of Social/Accessible Transport virtually since I came out of the Merchant Navy 27 years ago.
sir n we have jobs that pay more than the wages, and thats important to many of us.

Was this thread about something or other :?: :?
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Ingwey Gooblebogger
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Post by Ingwey Gooblebogger »

The way I see it is that the other parties Labour (I hesitate to call that bunch of twats labour, but that's their moniker) and the Tories both have stated their prohibitionist views.

Lib Dems have, at least, stated a more open policy. Whether or not they are lying is not that relevant. We know, for sure, that Labour and Tories won't support out views, so what the fuck, give the Lib Dems a try. Worst case scenario is that you get the status quo.

AND, as previously stated, in minority government situations, coalition partners can extract huge concessions from the other coalition member parties.

/Rant on
For those who say that they never vote, then you ARE (part of) the problem. You also have no right to complain. Either get in the game or shut up about its outcome. Jesus Christ, it is only, at most, 15 minutes, every 4 or 5 years AND your employer HAS to (by law) give you time to vote.
/Rant off

By the way, I think the Lib Dems have had quite rational drugs polices for some time now.

That is my two cents worth.
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hulldj
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Post by hulldj »

Thanks guys ... Politics 101 will slowly sink in.
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Post by doobydave »

For those who say that they never vote, then you ARE (part of) the problem. You also have no right to complain. Either get in the game or shut up about its outcome. Jesus Christ, it is only, at most, 15 minutes, every 4 or 5 years AND your employer HAS to (by law) give you time to vote.
Too true.

I can understand, in a way, the mentality behind not voting. In our cretinous first-past-the-post system, the probability that your vote will actually make a difference is nigh on zero. The only situation where an individual's vote changes the outcome is if the results are a tie, or one vote away from a tie. This incredibly unlikely outcome is the ONLY instance where your vote counts.

Given three main parties, and a 40% voting rate, it is possible for one of the main parties to 'win' whilst having the support of less than 15% of the population. ONE FIFTH OF THE TOTAL NUMBER OF NON-VOTERS.

Come on non-voters, get out and vote. I know the odds are, that individually, your vote has practically zero chance of making a difference, but how many of you buy lottery tickets?
And please bear in mind that a lottery win is a selfish positive outcome, whereas we could all benefit from the 'lottery win' of a different political landscape.

Most of my pot-head friends don't vote, but I'm gonna be on their case. If I only persuade one person, it's a start.
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Sir Niall of Essex-sire
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Post by Sir Niall of Essex-sire »

spidergawd wrote: Cool for you mate it was just a reaction related to the way the media loves to beat up on Teachers and Social Workers & etc. which I think is so destructive. I have a Social Worker Daughter and I've worked in the area of Social/Accessible Transport virtually since I came out of the Merchant Navy 27 years ago.
sir n we have jobs that pay more than the wages, and thats important to many of us.
Thats awesome man, i think the idea of working purely for the wage would drive me insane also.
Was this thread about something or other :?: :
Pot noodles?
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Ingwey Gooblebogger
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Post by Ingwey Gooblebogger »

I can understand, in a way, the mentality behind not voting. In our cretinous first-past-the-post system, the probability that your vote will actually make a difference is nigh on zero. The only situation where an individual's vote changes the outcome is if the results are a tie, or one vote away from a tie. This incredibly unlikely outcome is the ONLY instance where your vote counts.
Sadly, this issue is true of ALL electoral systems. One individual vote is negligible. However, in aggregate, they do count. Consider any one atom in Mount Everest. That one atom is insignificant, but collectively, they are all an amazing wonder of the world.

The "my vote doesn't count" idea only makes logical sense if no one else votes, otherwise it is an infantile cop-out. (So is the "there is no good party for which to vote" whinge. Really, then go out and form your own party OR better yet, make the other parties accountable. If 50 of your mates joined a local party, then you could determine who your riding candidate would be. )
Given three main parties, and a 40% voting rate, it is possible for one of the main parties to 'win' whilst having the support of less than 15% of the population. ONE FIFTH OF THE TOTAL NUMBER OF NON-VOTERS.
Yes and this is true of any electoral system.

First-past-the-post systems may not be the ideal system, but there are problems with other systems such as the STV (single transferalbe vote), proportional rep, and so on.

For example, in the proportional system the votes are tallied and each party is allocated (to the nearest person, can't have 0.57 of a seat) a number of seats according to this proportion. The parties themselves decide who will make up their propertion of seats. So, under this system, the voters do NOT have a say in who will represent them. (Sometimes these types of systems have the party chose from a list, but still you, the voter, do NOT vote for your representative.)

This may not sound too bad, if you live in a small country. such as any country in Europe, save Russia. However, for large countries, like Canada, the USA, and so on, having a party chose the members, from ridings thousands of miles from where you live, would NOT go over very well.) AND you would find that the majority of those chosen will be party hacks, mostly drawn from the capital city region. AND which representative would be accountable to your riding??

Also , if 60% of the electorate decide not to vote, then the outcome is still determined by the 40% who do vote, just like first past the post.

STV is even worse. (Recounts would be a fricken nightmare!)
Come on non-voters, get out and vote. I know the odds are, that individually, your vote has practically zero chance of making a difference, but how many of you buy lottery tickets?
And please bear in mind that a lottery win is a selfish positive outcome, whereas we could all benefit from the 'lottery win' of a different political landscape.

Most of my pot-head friends don't vote, but I'm gonna be on their case. If I only persuade one person, it's a start.
Not voting is about as stupid as not bathing.
IMO your "pot-head" friends who don't vote are contributing to prohibition.
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