What Soldier are realy doin in Afghan...

[cantona7]

my blood can be dried and smoked..or used as barbeque sauce for something different with yer burger.....

i guess this explains the "usbl labs blend" that i saw on the table at tony romas.

[Ingwey Gooblebogger]

disagree with you guys but understand where you are coming from.

In the past years I have been doing a lot of volunteer work with WWII veterans and this has changed my outlook somewhat.

wishing you all a peaceful Sunday.

Really? EVERY SINGLE ONE of the WWI and WWII vets that I knew personally (i.e. both my grandfathers for WWI and many uncles for WWII) thought that, for the most part, all wars were, in the end, unnecessary wastes of lives.

The cannon fodder are, mainly, young working class men and boys, fighting wars for some imperialistic/corporate interests; interests who will fuck them over once the war is over. I am always ashamed at how many veterans were treated. Scores and scores of them were hived off to the skid rows to live out lives in crappy shitholes. These men were the ones who made the greatest sacrifices for society and when they were no longer use we kicked them in the teeth.

This war, like Iraq, will end in a quagmire and, in addition to bankrupting Western treasuries, will leave Afghanis worse off than they were before. (And has strengthened terrorism to boot. What a complete cock-up!).

That 's my two centivos worth!

[Marco]

disagree with you guys but understand where you are coming from.

In the past years I have been doing a lot of volunteer work with WWII veterans and this has changed my outlook somewhat.

wishing you all a peaceful Sunday.

Really? EVERY SINGLE ONE of the WWI and WWII vets that I knew personally (i.e. both my grandfathers for WWI and many uncles for WWII) thought that, for the most part, all wars were, in the end, unnecessary wastes of lives.

The cannon fodder are, mainly, young working class men and boys, fighting wars for some imperialistic/corporate interests; interests who will fuck them over once the war is over. I am always ashamed at how many veterans were treated. Scores and scores of them were hived off to the skid rows to live out lives in crappy shitholes. These men were the ones who made the greatest sacrifices for society and when they were no longer use we kicked them in the teeth.

This war, like Iraq, will end in a quagmire and, in addition to bankrupting Western treasuries, will leave Afghanis worse off than they were before. (And has strengthened terrorism to boot. What a complete cock-up!).

That 's my two centivos worth!

As usual, you Brits are jumping to conclusions and assuming you knew what I meant, to fulfill your fantasies about Americans.

What I meant in reference to WWII vets (and I have dedicated the last ten years of my free time to support, historical research and writing about my father's division in WWII) is that regardless of the war, the soldiers in the field are human beings and need our support. The lads in Afg. are suffering greatly and they need to hear that the people love them and support them. The first thing out of your mouth when you hear about a dead NATO soldier is not that the war is fucked.

I am sorry that the vets you know from the UK were treated this way and I find it shocking. I can tell you for most WWII vets from the US, if they lived, the war gave them great opportunities that would otherwise not be there postwar, ie, every American vet could go to college for FREE. Treatment of veterans after Vietnam was much different, due to no small part on how horribly they were treated by the anti-war crowd. I would have been on the front lines protesting Vietnam, but they way we treated this poor kids who were drafted was really terrible.

[the happy hacker]

This is what you are supporting........



I will never pat someone on the back for the killing of women or children

[Kermit]

Iraq has nothing to do with it although wrong how happy was the people when he swung. They even executed him, if they did not want change then why did they execute him?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JUL-l6o ... re=related
Afganistan is a harder nut to crack but it is cracking and when it is free from the Taliban the people will be as happy as the people at the end of the video above.
As for the World wars well the vets have the opinion now that it was a waste of lives, this is something that came with age IMO. When it was happening they wanted to fight and protect there familys so they went to war.
My grandad fought in the 2nd and i remember his opinion of it and it was far from a waste of lives. And yes he was cannon fodder as it has been put but he had to do what had to be done.
Support our troops and hope for a safe return they helped give you the life you have today.

Now lets smoke

Edit.. just seen above and we have to face it there will be some unfortunate deaths, but what about the deaths the taliban cause, not just in afganistan but also Pakistan?

[Marco]

Iraq has nothing to do with it although wrong how happy was the people when he swung. They even executed him, if they did not want change then why did they execute him?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JUL-l6o ... re=related
Afganistan is a harder nut to crack but it is cracking and when it is free from the Taliban the people will be as happy as the people at the end of the video above.
As for the World wars well the vets have the opinion now that it was a waste of lives, this is something that came with age IMO. When it was happening they wanted to fight and protect there familys so they went to war.
My grandad fought in the 2nd and i remember his opinion of it and it was far from a waste of lives. And yes he was cannon fodder as it has been put but he had to do what had to be done.
Support our troops and hope for a safe return they helped give you the life you have today.

Now lets smoke

I have never met a WWII vet who thought that conflict was a waste of time. Most of the ones that I know, who are still alive, were strongly against the war in Iraq.

Unfortunately, the Taliban chooses to fight in populated areas and use civies as protection. Their fault entirely.

[Sir Niall of Essex-sire]

As usual, you Brits are jumping to conclusions and assuming you knew what I meant, to fulfill your fantasies about Americans.

As usual you Americans are dodging to question of why your troops mean more than those they are killing?

WWI and WWII were faught by people wanting to protect fundalmental liberities, one of which is freedom of speech. Which we can excerise against the Government and their decisions, if i dont agree with a war and someone dies. I can say the war is fucked, because to follow the army and Government blindly makes you a tool of the system. Furthermore, i would claim that to morn the death of your enemies as you would the death of your own is morally superiour to the alternative.

I don't support the troops, because what they're fighting for i don't support. I don't want to see any of them hurt, i don't want to see any human hurt ideally.

I think if you was to ask WW Vets, they would be disgusted that the lesson was not learnt and certain countries are still willing to use armed forces and waste lifes for a causes that aren't worthwhile or in the case of the Iraq war, a complete lie. Or in the case of Afghanistan, to give a platform for an illegal war.

[Stanky Danky]

As usual you Americans are dodging to question of why your troops mean more than those they are killing?

Don't act like there aren't Brittish troops in Afghanistan killing people too.

[Panog]

What are those White Widow vet you're all speaking about ?

[Sir Niall of Essex-sire]

As usual you Americans are dodging to question of why your troops mean more than those they are killing?

Don't act like there aren't Brittish troops in Afghanistan killing people too.

They are, and in historical terms. I think the British Armed forces has commited more crimes than the American Armed forces.

[Sir Niall of Essex-sire]

Edit.. just seen above and we have to face it there will be some unfortunate deaths, but what about the deaths the taliban cause, not just in afganistan but also Pakistan?

I thought we were supposed to be morally superiour to the Taliban? Is comparing our kill count to theirs a good way to justify our actions.

Something that strikes me is that do the people of Afghanistan want our interference? What if they wanted to be under Taliban control? Do we have a right to interfer?

[Marco]

As usual, you Brits are jumping to conclusions and assuming you knew what I meant, to fulfill your fantasies about Americans.

How clear to I have to make it: these are my people (and I do not mean race) and my loyalty will remain with them...American, Dutch, French, etc.

I never mentioned that you should not speak out against the war, not one bit. I protested against the Iraq war both in DC and in a foreign country.

In my opinion, to not at least support the troops at a basic level is a bit cowardly and limp-wristed. Both traits that I sadly fin in abundance among many Europeans these days (and I have lived over here for 11 of my 41 years lol).

[Sir Niall of Essex-sire]

How clear to I have to make it: these are my people (and I do not mean race) and my loyalty will remain with them...American, Dutch, French, etc.

I understand your basic idea Marco, i'm questioning any jusitification you can offer to support it.

I never mentioned that you should not speak out against the war, not one bit. I protested against the Iraq war both in DC and in a foreign country.

The lads in Afg. are suffering greatly and they need to hear that the people love them and support them. The first thing out of your mouth when you hear about a dead NATO soldier is not that the war is fucked

Is that not, at the most basic level, suggesting that my support should come first not any criticism i have of the war. Therefore, does it not imply
that you are telling me what my first response should be. Therby telling me that should not speak out against this? At least in this context anyway?

In my opinion, to not at least support the troops at a basic level is a bit cowardly and limp-wristed. Both traits that I sadly fin in abundance among many Europeans these days (and I have lived over here for 11 of my 41 years lol

I think your very wrong historically and in general. Historically, the Europeans have supported their troops, and in the face of more difficulties than the Americans in WWI and WWII. You have to remember the UK was bombed nightly, this did not stop support of the troops. Because that was a just war which had a point. Not this war that America has started and expects the European community to support it in.

I think that if you support the troops no matter what your complicit in war crimes. You are also a moronic person who does not excerise their common sense or critical abilty of their mind because your blinded by the completelty unjustifiable and false concept of Nationalism. Which is something you find amoung Americans in abundence.

The critical thought directed towards troops does not happen in the States as much as Europe. Why? Because people like you Marco call anyone who dares to use their intellect and follow the troops limb wristed and weak. Whereas we call that rational thought. It's not something that makes a person weak, rational thought is what seperates lower moral theories, like Nationalism, from higher moral theories such as Kantian Moral Philosophy.

I'm not weak wristed or weak because i dont support the troops. I excerise my intellect and freedom to do so. I do not blindly follow an ideaology and fall fail to name calling. Because i am not 11, i dont not really mind what people call me. I care about my moral standings, which can only be fulfilled by not supporting illegal wars in any way.

Note : I'm not saying those who support the Iraw war are complicit in War Crimes, but people who don't question their blind support of the Troops for the cause of Nationalism.

[Kermit]

Edit.. just seen above and we have to face it there will be some unfortunate deaths, but what about the deaths the taliban cause, not just in afganistan but also Pakistan?

I thought we were supposed to be morally superiour to the Taliban? Is comparing our kill count to theirs a good way to justify our actions.

Something that strikes me is that do the people of Afghanistan want our interference? What if they wanted to be under Taliban control? Do we have a right to interfer?

I am not comparing i am just pointing out they happily kill innocent civillians too and not by accident. They also care little about them otherwise why hide within them.
TBH i would be happy if the little pussys came out of hiding and just had a good old skirmish in an opium field. But they wont coz they know it will be there downfall. They know how our countrys feel about civillians getting hurt thats why they hide within.

I think the number of Asylum seekers coming to our country to seek refuge tells of how they feel. They are the lucky ones who used there life savings to be trucked accross europe with hope of a better life.
If they fail in asylum and get sent home then here is one story for you of what happens to them on there return.
http://www.asylumstories.co.uk/category/afghanistan/
and when australia sent some back well who killed them?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 025923.ece.
Now would we like to live with that fear? Who else can help? the Taliban are to strong for the afgan people.

[Marco]

Well Niall I see you have decided to resort to personal attacks and name calling. With that I am really not interested in continuing the discussion.

I know you are not 11 but you are very young and you have a tendency to be very preachy. You seem to know everything about Americans, but from what you think we are like, it must comes from books and magazines and not extensive travel in the States or real friendships with Americans. Correct me if I am wrong of course.

And sorry if this is contrary to your view, but I do find that in general, Europeans are becoming more and more impotent. I realize it is a reaction to the past 800 years of bloodletting, but on another level it could be tragic someday. Tragic for me as well, as this place is my permanent home now.

And we direct a great deal of critical thought towards the troops, the war, their motivation for serving, etc. in the US. Just because it is not in front of your media sources does not mean it is not happening.