Palin 2012 - Abandon all hope of change

[cantona7]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s08lliASU2E

mclovin says dont teabag!

[Uncle Ron]

the problem is amongst the young & working class going into a newsagents & buying the times is very uncool,

Its too bad they can't have the balls to not give a shit what someone else thinks of them and buy something that they might enjoy.

People don't even have to buy the paper, they can get the same thing online. When in history has it been cool, for the young and (under) working class, to be well read and current in local, national, and international affairs? Good question, eh? The answer is obvious, never.
More shockingly are the latest statistics that state there are fewer than 25% of 18-25 year old's in the US that are politically active. This is down from nearly 50% in the mid 70's. Why is cannabis still illegal? Food for thought.

Peace.
The greater the doubt, the greater the awakening.
Einstein

[Stanky Danky]

Found this really good video of the 9/12 tea bagger rally in DC. The interviews are hillarious, gonzo journalism in action. I've never seen a finer collection of ignorance in my life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9m ... re=related

[treetop]

Scary scary stuff. All those poor folks watching Fox news every day and believing what it preaches as gospel.

[DazedandConfusedinOR]

To each his or her own I guess. You can continue supporting the party that wants to tax the shit out of you, pass heath care legislation that a vast majority of Americans don't want, and spend money we don't have bailing out corporate giants who continue to pay out multi-million dollar bonuses while hard-working Americans suffer just to put food on their table.

[DazedandConfusedinOR]

When in history has it been cool for...the working class, to be well read and current in local, national, and international affairs?The answer is obvious, never.

Wow, I resent that. I put myself through college and graduated at 38 with a degree in history. I think it's a bit unfair to generalize. Not all Republicans are tea-baggers just as all Muslims aren't extremists. Maybe it would help to keep an open mind.

The simple fact is Obama hasn't lived up to his campaign promises. Americans want change; we want action, not words. It's easy to make promises, much harder to keep them.

And why bother to sign your posts with "peace"? I've read many of your rants. There's nothing peaceful about your demeanor at all.

[Marco]

To each his or her own I guess. You can continue supporting the party that wants to tax the shit out of you, pass heath care legislation that a vast majority of Americans don't want, and spend money we don't have bailing out corporate giants who continue to pay out multi-million dollar bonuses while hard-working Americans suffer just to put food on their table.

A vast majority of Americans are stupid and mis-informed, so their 'desire' to die without healthcare needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

Sometimes I think democracy is over-rated....sigh...

[Stanky Danky]

A vast majority of Americans are stupid and mis-informed

I don't know if I'd go as far as to say a vast majority. I think about a third of Americans are extremely stupid and mis-informed, about a third are informed but stupid, and about a third are intelligent.

[DazedandConfusedinOR]

A vast majority of Americans are stupid and mis-informed, so their 'desire' to die without healthcare needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

American's do want healthcare, just not Obamacare. The problem with Obama's plan is that it is too costly and will result in higher taxes. What we need is more affordable health care. Just about anything the government gets involved with results in more bureaucracy and red tape, which ends up resulting in higher costs than anticipated.

And trust me, there are stupid people in every country!

[Marco]

A vast majority of Americans are stupid and mis-informed, so their 'desire' to die without healthcare needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

American's do want healthcare, just not Obamacare. The problem with Obama's plan is that it is too costly and will result in higher taxes. What we need is more affordable health care. Just about anything the government gets involved with results in more bureaucracy and red tape, which ends up resulting in higher costs than anticipated.

And trust me, there are stupid people in every country!

True, but I am an American, and have had the great luck to live outside of my country a number of times, and we have more than our fair share.

[Sir Niall of Essex-sire]

A vast majority of Americans are stupid and mis-informed, so their 'desire' to die without healthcare needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

American's do want healthcare, just not Obamacare. The problem with Obama's plan is that it is too costly and will result in higher taxes. What we need is more affordable health care. Just about anything the government gets involved with results in more bureaucracy and red tape, which ends up resulting in higher costs than anticipated.

And trust me, there are stupid people in every country!

I thought the Obama system actually cost's less in comparision to the health insurence which is in place. Also, if we compare the American health care system to rest of the worlds. According to the World Health Organisation ( WHO ) report.

The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18 th . Several small countries – San Marino, Andorra, Malta and Singapore are rated close behind second- placed Italy.

Also interestingly.

In Europe, health systems in Mediterranean countries such as France, Italy and Spain are rated higher than others in the continent. Norway is the highest Scandinavian nation, at 11th .

Colombia, Chile, Costa Rica and Cuba are rated highest among the Latin American nations – 22nd, 33rd, 36th and 39th in the world, respectively.
Singapore is ranked 6th , the only Asian country apart from Japan in the top 10 countries.

In the Pacific, Australia ranks 32 nd overall, while New Zealand is 41st .

In the Middle East and North Africa, many countries rank highly: Oman is

in 8 th place overall, Saudi Arabia is ranked 26th , United Arab Emirates 27th and Morocco, 29th.

Morocco, a significantly poorer country than the states preforms better.

In regards to value for money, to use the colloquial term.

In North America, Canada rates as the country with the fairest mechanism for health system finance – ranked at 17-19, while the United States is at 54-55. Cuba is the highest among Latin American and Caribbean nations at 23-25.

It seems to be to be arguing that the current American system is a good system is unfounded. It's a good system for the rich, not for everyone else. To reject ' Obama-care' a system which would save money for the majority and a system which to be frank, can't be any worse than the current one seems a bit strange. I suspect it's based on ideological differences and scare tatics, not the good of the people, makes you wonder what the founding fathers would say about policy which does not have the good of the people at it's basis.

Copies of this report are available at. bookorders@who.ch.

WHO website : http://www.who.int/en/

[spidergawd]

Stop beating yourselves up you yanks, when you have news stands stuffed with the kind of rubbish like we have then its time to get worried I think.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/home/
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html

The first two are just sad, the third one the Daily Mail IMO is quite dangerous, it stokes up any flames it can find and does nothing at all promote social cohesion.

US health care? I probably don't know enough to have an opinion on that. The UK health care system though ain't perfect but I don't know any one that would like to see it damaged or dismantled.

It seems to me that a lot of the opposition in the US is people worried about big gov. bureaucracy and its cost. From my understanding the price the Americans pay for health care contains a substantial amount for the bureaucracy that already exists between Insurance companies, the health providers and of course BIG business who produce the health care products (whether people need them or not).
I'm sure in America, if you have the dosh to pay then its probably amongst the best in the world. Our NHS isn't free as such, but is based on the principal of being free at the point of delivery, i.e. if you have a heart attack or something, you won't get another one worrying how you're going to pay the bill.

[DazedandConfusedinOR]

It really depends who you are. Poor people in a lot of states have decent health care. When I was a college student in New York, for example, my income was very low. So I signed up for a program called Healthy Plus New York. I received kick-ass health insurance at absolutely no cost. I didn't have a copay to visit the doctor and I didn't pay for prescriptions. Now that I'm through with school I can get health insurance through my job for about $70 a month, but it's not all that great so I declined it. I don't get sick so there's no need for me to have it. I think when you have it, every little thing prompts you to go see the doctor and then they want to start you on 10 different medications pointing out all that's wrong with you.

My friend on the other hand has a decent job making over $60K a year and health insurance for him costs over $700 a month! That's a big chunk of change, but he has a one and a half year old son so he really needs to have it.

The problem is nothing costs what the government says it going to cost. Obama says it's going to cost $950 billion over 10 years, but I guarantee it would end up costing much more than that. It's not that American's don't want health care, it's just that many are against governent involvement in the healthcare system any more than already exists. There ought to be incentives to businesses to provide health care to their employees through tax breaks, credits, etc. To make matters worse, Obama plans to force Americans to carry health insurance. His latest plans would make people who lack health coverage pay a fee of $695 a year or 2.5% of their income, whichever is higher. Ain't that some bullshit??

It's all very complicated. The current bill is 2,700 pages long. This is obviously meant to confuse people and muddy the waters. As an American, I think there are more pressing matters than healthcare at this moment in time, namely the economy.

[Sir Niall of Essex-sire]

The problem is nothing costs what the government says it going to cost. Obama says it's going to cost $950 billion over 10 years, but I guarantee it would end up costing much more than that. It's not that American's don't want health care, it's just that many are against governent involvement in the healthcare system any more than already exists. There ought to be incentives to businesses to provide health care to their employees through tax breaks, credits, etc. To make matters worse, Obama plans to force Americans to carry health insurance. His latest plans would make people who lack health coverage pay a fee of $695 a year or 2.5% of their income, whichever is higher. Ain't that some bullshit??
.

To para-phase G.W Bush. Isn't this speculation?

It's all very complicated. The current bill is 2,700 pages long. This is obviously meant to confuse people and muddy the waters. As an American, I think there are more pressing matters than healthcare at this moment in time, namely the economy

I thought it was 1017. Is this an old copy?

http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_11…

However, i think that the health care bill, which the radical changes. Needs to be that complicated, i'd worry if it was a 10 page bill. Wouldn't seem thought through to me.

Also. How many pages are due to Republican insistence on admentmends?

IMHO, Obama should just use reconciliation, it's only what the Republicans did when they were in power.

[DazedandConfusedinOR]

Well, it would be Congress who would have to attempt reconciliation, not Obama per se. Republicans and Democrats have both used the reconciliation process. For example, between 1981 and 2009 there have been 22 reconciliation bills - 14 by the Republicans and 8 by the Democrats, so both parties have utilized the process. However, reconciliation is typically used to balance budget bills - things that are simply too important to be in a perpetual state of limbo. Also, many reconciliation bills enjoyed bipartisan support. The current healthcare bill certainly doesn't fit this description. It is split along party lines and, what's more, a majority of Americans do not support the current health care bill. If the Dems were to force through their version of the bill, I can guarantee you Obama would not win a second term. Furthermore, many Democrats are going to be in for the fight of their political lives in upcoming mid-term elections and I promise you many are not going to risk upsetting their constituents to the point where it will cost them an election!

Edit: And yes, if you saw a healthcare bill that was 1,017 pages instead of 2,700 then it was most certainly not the current bill. I was watching C-SPAN and the current version is indeed 2,700 pages. I'm not saying it needs to be 10 pages, but what about a few hundred??