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Kermit wrote:Be sensible, still not sure myself but by voting Lib Dems is surely going to lead to another Brown Era?????

Interestingly enough, it's been reported they would join with the Torys, it was then reported they reported they would join with Labour. Then the Lib Dems brought out the Labservitive campaign promising not to join either of them.

On the basis on that, i'd say they would remain independent.

Nick Clegg was a Conservative a long time ago but he would never side with either side.

cantona7 wrote:what are labor..whats their equivelent in the us party system?


i always resented tony blair for backing bush. i kinda feel had he showed some balls and said no to iraq maybe bushwack would have backed off realising he had no one?

They're are kinda like the Democrats i supose, they've moved to right in recent years though man. However as a party they are probably more openly left then the Democrats.

Blair made a mistake going to war, imo he was worrying about his legacy too much. However, Blair was a great Prime minster, probably among the best we've ever had. Look what he managed to do in Northern Ireland. I think History will remember him for that rather than the war as he was just Bush's bitch.

cantona7 wrote:what are labor..whats their equivelent in the us party system?


i always resented tony blair for backing bush. i kinda feel had he showed some balls and said no to iraq maybe bushwack would have backed off realising he had no one?

labour used to be the party of the unions, it still takes union cash but new labour is more old conservative than old labour,

blair is imo the worst prime minister britains ever had, like sir niall says he did manage peace in northern ireland which he deserves maximum respect for & he did introduce the minimum wage, imo the most important piece of legaslation passed & he passed the bill on fox hunting, but lets not forget that way before 9/11, blair even more than clinton was massively in favour of sanctions against iraq, the sanctions as we now know had literaly zero effect on the lives of saddam & his cronies but figures out there say over half a million children died from lack of medicines which were kept out because of sanctions,
also the largest demonstations britain has EVER seen against the iraq war were completely ignored by blair because he'd already made the deal with bush & the oil & reconstruction companies, from day 1 blair wanted the history books to read 'churchill, thatcher, blair' he knew that only wartime PM's are remembered.

but the biggest gripe i have with him, is stealing the UK only legitimate left wing party, my family has always been left wing & voted for labour for ever, my grandad still does because he says 'labours left, tories right' he just doesn't see that hes now voting for a right wing party, i try explaining the current policies are identical to thatchers, but he almost doesn't want to believe it,

the liberal democrats have never been left wing, they were only formed because a group of labour mp's thought labour was too left wing so formed a party called the social democrats which later merged with the liberal party to form the liberal democrats, the liberal party is a party i could have seen myself relating to if they were still around today, but dont be fooled into thinking that because they were liberal they were left wing, 1 of the liberal parties main points was less government inteference in free trade, a policy margaret thatcher gladly adopted years later,
like i said though if the liberal party was still around i would probably align myself with them because they prided themselves on policies which enhanced personal freedoms & reduced the power of the monarchy,
but if we'r gonna say IF they were still around then id probably been a labour person, i still agree with 90% of what Tony Benn says

but the biggest gripe i have with him, is stealing the UK only legitimate left wing party,

Legend.

I would argue that looking at the Lib Dem policies ( Gay rights, drug policy, higher taxes for the higher earners, lowering taxes for the lower earners, a move away towards the European Union, reform of the house of Lords, greater taxes on the companies earning a huge amount of money in england banks included, an end to tax domicile status.) They would be left wing, i think the liberal party . Comparing Labour to the states, they would be a far left party over there, even the Torys would because of the socialised health care system.

But i see what your saying man, perhaps the furtherest left wing party we have is the Green Party?

m8 in the states the lib dems would be called the party of Lenin, dont get me wrong out of the current main parties the lib dems the best, but i still disagree with some of their views on tax, i do think theyr'e gonna have a part to play, iv'e been saying for months its gonna be a hung parliament, im convinced though they will side with the tories, the words clegg has used so far have been very much that the people have had enough of brown & that his time is up, how can he then go & form a coallition after saying that, his words against cameron haven't been as strong, saying that people dont want a return to the tories policies of the 80's, basically saying an agreement is there to be reached if the tories want, word is they'l form a coallition if vince cable is made chancellor, vince cable as chancellor would be a very shrewd move, he's seriously clued up on economic issues

what are labor..whats their equivelent in the us party system?


i always resented tony blair for backing bush. i kinda feel had he showed some balls and said no to iraq maybe bushwack would have backed off realising he had no one?

There are no real American equivalents becasue American politics is quite a bit further to the right than British/European/Canadian politics, but in a nutshell:

Labour used to be the party which, IMO, best represented the working class. It supported labour/trade unions, was anti-war, pro-education, pro-civil liberties, pro-NHS, and so on. It was, at one time, a great party, but now it is full of shits. THet have moved considerably to the right. (my motto: NEW LABOUR = OLD TORY)
You could say that their current views would be similar to the less right-wing membes of the Democrat party.

The Conservatives, were more the party that best represented businessmen (at the expense of the working man). These folks would be kinda like the more left-leaning Republicans (if there are such beasts)
Often they appealed to the middle class or upper class type folks who don't want their taxes going to feed / house /educate the poor. Monetary policy reigns supreme for the Tories.

As a former Labourite (who has completely abandoned the NEW LABOUR shites), I really like what I'm hearing from the Liberal Democrats. (Of course it is likely electioneering bullshit, but hey that is all we have to go on.)

Don't worry about the "a vote for the lib dems will guarantee party X wins" nonsense. We, in Canada, get that kind of BS all the time about voting for our perrenial 3rd place party, the NDP. Vote your conscience. If that party wins then great, if not then at least you can take comfort that you did not help the other f*ckers get in.

In a hung parliament the balance of power vested in the 3rd party coalition partner in a coalition government can be enormous.

IMO, not voting, is cop-out....
No Vote = no right to complain about the government

Look what he managed to do in Northern Ireland. I think History will remember him for that rather than the war as he was just Bush's bitch


he done fuck all for northern ireland except cause more shite by giving the provos a £26million pay off. the ceasefire was gonna happen before the ira surrenderd

Prolly vote BNPea - fed up with all these carrots on my plate, taking all the gravy. Ha ha, gonna vote Libdem or Tory, still undecided really...Labour have done some good things but its good for the country to have a change after 13 years IMO

gixxer wrote:Look what he managed to do in Northern Ireland. I think History will remember him for that rather than the war as he was just Bush's bitch


he done fuck all for northern ireland except cause more shite by giving the provos a £26million pay off. the ceasefire was gonna happen before the ira surrenderd

I think the situation is much better than the 90's?

PauliWallnuts wrote:but the biggest gripe i have with him, is stealing the UK only legitimate left wing party

+2

You should still vote though. It depresses me how many people don't bother.

Heard some of the pranksters on the radio earlier. It's embarrassing how, after 13 years of power, NewLabia are talking about parliamentary reform.
Nothing to do with their suddenly-realised unpopularity then...?

What I don't get is how the Tories seem to have come through 'expensesgate' better off than Labour?

that all depends on how you look at it niall. in the 90s we didnt have all these fucking foreigners taking houses and what few jobs there is.

personally id prefer the troubles to foreigners

You should see the closest town to me in the UK when it comes to foreigners.
There are hoards of them and consist mainly of Polish, Lithuaninan and some Portugese who all work in a local food processing factory. If I'm completely honest, I have zero problems with them being here. They work damn hard and earn a weeks wage here equivalent to a months wage in their own country. Some of them are highly educated too and take on the work as the local drop-outs in the town can't be arsed to work in a place like that and would rather sit at home, on the dole and smoke pot all day.

Only one bad point about these workers who come to this town is that they don't integrate with the English or socialise, they work hard for their money and return home when they have enough saved up.

sounds pretty much the same nationalities we have here trance,,,,but what i dont like is the fact they were allowed to move here,,, after 35 yrs of the troubles i think we should have been allowed to rebuild our country and get the wages in line with the rest of the uk before this lot came in

its no wonder theres a lot getting burnt out of their houses and beaten up

gixxer wrote:that all depends on how you look at it niall. in the 90s we didnt have all these fucking foreigners taking houses and what few jobs there is.

personally id prefer the troubles to foreigners

It'll be interesting to see how immigration plays in the election man.

I used to work all kinds of shit jobs to fund my studies, i worked with a lot of immigrants. One guy from Tajikistan had a horrible life story involving war, death of family members etc. He came here, worked a night job at a ASDA. I was in my old university town the other week, popped into the ASDA for late night munchies. Saw him, not wearing a colleague uniform, shirt and tie for the lad. He had worked his way up to night manager apparently. Was earning a good wage ( sending some home to the few people still alive ) and moving his family over for a better education. I couldn't help but thinking that makes me proud of my country, offering opportunities like that.

In Northern Ireland it's a different story though, different social history etc. It would be wonderfully interesting thing to research and write a article about.

I remember being in Sandy Row Belfast researching something for a sociology final module project. I was lucky enough to have friends there so had a good opportunity and took it. We was near the Row in a Chinese takeaway call the Silver something, Silver Ship i think? Anyways i saw a bunch of lads obviously bit a battered go in and order a heap of food. Next night walking past it i saw the same lads throwing stones and it shouting for them to get out of the area. Made me laugh at the time.