So the Weed pass thing? and your thoughts?

[Marco]

Second, how in the world is the Dutch law racist? Explain that one to me please?

I'm not suggesting for a moment that Dutch law is inherently racist, simply suggesting that the motives of some of the political coalition in wanting to get rid of coffeeshops, Geert Wilders far right party for example, may perhaps be motivated by their racist attitudes to immigrants, many of whom they see as being responsible, in part, for coffeeshop culture. It seems to me that that quite a few shops are run an owned by people of an immigrant background. It's in that sense, and that sense alone, that I meant it.

Dutch people who I've met, particularly within the coffeeshop culture, seem to be very tolerant of other races and people. I don't think the same applies to some of the politicians who make up the coalition, and suspect their motives are part of their wider anti-immigrant political agenda

Ok, I see your point. I really don't see that idea as correct, from reading the papers, etc. It is much more of a law and order/image issue. A lot of owners of the coffeeshops are white Dutch also, and tourists visiting the CS scene seem overwhelmingly white too.

I hate to say it, but I think the Dutch are pretty racist on 'average' (if such a thing exists). There is plenty of outright racism but there is also a ton of more underground or unsaid racism. The theory that the Dutch are somehow more tolerant than others is imho a bit of a dream. cheers.

[Marco]

Hey Marco get fucked. You old fellas are being such wannkas about this. If you don't like it why read it.

Also what the fuck did I do to you? Did I touch a nerve when i said Paris sucked. When I do a trip report, maybe I'll explain a bit more like Paris didn't actually suck, but most of the people I met were not nice and made it harder to be there. There were some absolute diamonds in the rough. Maybe I won't do a trip report as it seems you fucking nazi's have rules you've made up in the forum that I didn't understand, like your only cool if you've been to Amsterdam a million times or your fucking old. Otherwise you can't have an opinion on it. Just young and dumb right? i should just shut up on a forum hey?

I not gunna let you tell me to shut up. Its a rude thing in the first place, everybody is allowed to have a say. Whether you like it or not, agree with it or not. Well your just whingers. What more could I expect from the elderly? Its always the young people. Spidergawd had absolutely no reason for attacking me.

You are really coming off as thinking your better than me? that's another way of saying that is very vain.

Now I am old? Fuck me, I had no idea.

I never asked you to shut up by the way. You are way too good at making a fool of yourself anyways.

[Marco]

the stupid ,sick selfish person of which you speak..that's me guilty as charged.
as explained in a much earlier post on this thread it might be unfair to target the netherlands ,however, whereas my country the US certainly is guilty of having a shit mj policy at least they are moving in the right direction. the netherlands, our guiding light with the model others should follow(save the stupid backdoor system) is going in the wrong direction. It just seems to be the right place right time to make a stand. these idiot christian democrats see you, me and other smokers as low rent ,unmotivated riff raff that are leading to the fall of society. it might be time to show them that they are sadly mistaken. we have financial might.we have the ability to mobilize . we have great numbers.we have brilliance sprinkled among us. plenty of successful ,motivated innovators are fans of the dam and cannabis in general. i am just suggesting that smoking loads of weed on april 20th will not change their opinion or inspire any fear of reprisal. the meek do not inherit the earth. perhaps ,a boycott of dutch products to the tune of a 3 percent gdp reduction may turn their heads and the heads of voters. my idea about contributing to a fund to help finance the coffeeshops to keep most of them from going out of business will preserve their footprint in amsterdam. once they are turned into pubs or whatever awful mundane establishment they will be ,good luck getting that real estate back. i think it would be great to muck up their plans to gobble up the coffeeshops and leave them with a bunch of coffeeshops with no customers to feed surrounding businesses . again, the coffeeshops would still survive because of contributions and the govt would not get the replacement visitors that they had hoped for. i would ,also, hope a george soros type who advocates for the legalization of drugs could help buttress the coffeeshops as they clearly show that society can survive and thrive with marijuana in the mainstream. unicef says netherlands are first in child welfare and their 10th highest gdp per capita shows that they are a very productive society.


also, to address the unfairness of targeting the netherlands . isn't most of the world targeting iran with sanctions at this time. do you think most iranians are obsessed with getting a nuclear weapon? i doubt it. i dated a girl from iran way back and she said behind closed doors they had very western ideals and liked to dance ,drink , etc. the world is trying to make it tough for the common man in iran to incite them to move the governments opinion on this matter. this would be the same idea. and YES i think preventing loss of freedom is on par with keeping a nuclear weapon from iran(who would probably not use it anyway as they would fear a massive reprisal)

Thanks for the response, and I did not mean to say you are sick. I understand what you are saying, but I think such a boycott is simply impossible. Organizing stoners is bit like herding cats

[Marco]

let's not forget that the christian democrats got their ass handed to them in the last election(if i recall coorrectly) and somehow they have the nerve to push their anti coffeeshop agenda. didn't it come down to one seat that allowed them to do this. not exactly a mandate . that makes it even more disappointing

It's true that the CD's have got a tiny majority in the Dutch parliament, only held in place with the support of Wilders far-right party.

Wilders is having a go at Poles today, the usual right wing populist rhetoric. He usually rants about Muslims and immigrants and probably blames cannabis coffeeshop culture on the Afghanis and the Morrocans for supplying the stuff back in the 60s and 70s. No doubt if the Dutch had invented it he'd be all for it.

my wife is a polish citizen and i was hoping my ticket to moving to the dam in 10 years. what is he saying about the poles? they seem to be a hard working lot. their skin is white like wilders and they are christian. he sure is a tough racist to please..

Poles are great (and beautiful women...like Russians, Czechs, etc etc....mmmmmmmmm ), don't let that fucker Wilders prevent you from making the move. Truth is the Dutch are not too keen on any foreigners.

[Marco]

don't worry folks a bunch of coffeeshop supporters are going to have a smokeout on 4/20 or 20/4 to make their stand. i am sure that has the dutch govt.

Taken individually, the idea of a bunch of supporters boycotting undefined dutch "products"is not better, let me tell you humbly that. Besides I think their top seller products are financial/naval: just the ones a stoner usually buy.
Personally I would support the protest idea if there was a serious preparation and propaganda: coffeeshops supportes around the world could be millions but I heard even dutch smokers uninformed about the event and this means "good bye" with 2 months left.
All makes me think that just before talking about what to do we need to know who we are, how mouch and what we have in mind. We need to talk, share, organize, act fast. Defeatism and fighting among ourselves are the best way to waste the few energies we have and let the weedpass win.

Well,paesano, I only said a 3 percent reduction in gdp.I understand that many things they make their money on would be beyond reach,however,unilever,heineken,cut flowers and bulbs,tourism are a few. If people stopped going to shell gas stations that would rattle their cage,also.granted oil is a fungible commodity and really if I remember correctly the stations are individually owned so I understand that shell would not be badly hurt but it would get the message across. I,also,think that you underestimate the financial wherewithal and diverse background of stoners. ING is dutch I think .if so money can be moved out to other institutions.you did not comment on the idea of saving the coffeeshop footprint.surely,you think that once they are uprooted that they will lose their choice locations if the law ever changes back in our favor.

FYI, a 3% reduction in GDP would eventually impact all of society and indirectly cause much suffering and even death for some. It would mean cuts in various parts of society, including aid for the poor, medical, overseas assistance, etc.

Not to mention the loss of jobs, etc.

[piedpiperofvice]

Unfortunately,marco,the last sentence might explain why stoners are continually marginalized and dismissed leading to our oppression worldwide.thank you for your response.I have read some of your posts in the past and consider you to be one of the bright lights on the site. And with regard to the problems associated with a 3 percent gdp cut.well..that might change their thinking...I know selfish..but to quote magnum force movie.."sacrifices have to be made".

[piedpiperofvice]

The herding cats line is the last line I was talking about Marco.you threw a couple posts in between

[puffthemagicdragon]

Now I am old? Fuck me, I had no idea.

I never asked you to shut up by the way. You are way too good at making a fool of yourself anyways.

Oi, leave us oldies alone Marco

I was misquoted too, so you're in good company

[mrdcotor]

Well,paesano, I only said a 3 percent reduction in gdp.I understand that many things they make their money on would be beyond reach,however,unilever,heineken,cut flowers and bulbs,tourism are a few. If people stopped going to shell gas stations that would rattle their cage,also.granted oil is a fungible commodity and really if I remember correctly the stations are individually owned so I understand that shell would not be badly hurt but it would get the message across. I,also,think that you underestimate the financial wherewithal and diverse background of stoners. ING is dutch I think .if so money can be moved out to other institutions.you did not comment on the idea of saving the coffeeshop footprint.surely,you think that once they are uprooted that they will lose their choice locations if the law ever changes back in our favor.

Thanks for the clarifications, cumpà: 3% gdp reduction would surely spread the message (supposing the 3% is a realistic amount), but means a big goal and we need as well an organizational system to improve the plan and spread the message capillary. I hope the many stoners background i forgot can make the difference (even if i feel something telling me not, i have to admit).
About the footprints it's a good idea in two ways: can help to get them in business back and can be the preservation of historical spots like cs are (and this can be a strong propaganda factor). But for this idea, and for the idea to support economically cs while they are still open i had read somewhere in the topic, an association to manage such big amount of money and engagement is even more necessary.
With a dispersed support the risk is to distribute it unequally, with no efficency. to buy/run a company (like a bar in a closed cs, Nes cafè style or a museum) an organitazion with lawyers ecc.. is essential.

[puffthemagicdragon]

Seems like all the Haarlem coffee shops are going to refuse to introduce Wietpas.

http://www.coffeeshopnieuws.nl/index.ph ... e-weedpass

[A Leprechaun]

Seems like all the Haarlem coffee shops are going to refuse to introduce Wietpas.

http://www.coffeeshopnieuws.nl/index.ph ... e-weedpass

Yeah these guys need support,whenever you are over there,jump on a train and give them your support,I won't be there until august but I'll definitely be heading over that way,

[nolvanschaik]

Thank you for posting the latest news about Haarlem. We hope other cities will follow!

[nel z bub]

Thank you Nol,
I'm hoping this will make some difference. As one of these potentially unemployable people, I'm trying to stay optimistic!
The "WEG MET DE WIETPAS" signs are certainly starting to appear all over Amsterdam. I'm optimistic this is a sign of the beginning of some organisation by the BCD here. We'll certainly be supporting all their efforts to put a stop to this political myopia.

[notsofasteddie]

"Away with the Wietpas" sounds like a good idea to me!

[puffthemagicdragon]

Nol is asking on FB if as many people as possible can get the word out about Haarlem refusing to introduce the Wietpas. I've done my bit and will continue to do so.

So over to you peeps