Another massacre, this time 5-10 year old school children...

[Nimrod]

You all can talk about hunting and sport all you want but the 2nd ammendment is to protect ourselves from tyrannical government.

Yep, NOW we're talking.

The U.S. government would steamroll and make this a police state if they could. They keep trying, ever so slowly and subtley, but all those pesky firearms kind of make them nervous.

This isn't, and won't be Germany, circa 1939.

[Stanky Danky]

You all can talk about hunting and sport all you want but the 2nd ammendment is to protect ourselves from tyrannical government. I will use modern weaponry because if I fight, I fight to win, not to make a "last stand."

If the constitution isn't right for you then by all means find a new home. Until someone presents a better document for peace, and prosperity Ill have to stick with this.

Fight the government? GASP! What a whack job!

Hail Government! Hail Government! Hail Government!

You do realize you sound like a bit of a paranoid redneck with your little fight the government with my guns rant?

[worldcitizen1723]

For the record I said modern weaponry, not gun, but I still understand your point. Thank you for helping prove my point regarding the tyrannical government we currently have. I understand you why you find it so comical, but to live without rights/freedom isn't really living.

hey red- really are not ALL governments tyrannical to some extent? (obviously some more than others) but is not that the nature of government?

what rights are we talking about?
personally I find the TSA and homeland security an indignation to my personal freedom-
as a non tobacco smoker - I actually find the smoking ban reprehensible
freedom of speech? besides political correctness, that seems in tact. But none of these will weaponry help.

what i find more insidious is the monitoring of our movements and connections thru modern technology (a big brother scenario in the making) with everyone compliant, merrily joining Facebook and offering up all their personal information, equipping their vehicles with onstar and other monitering devices.

but still, i really do not see how in "modern weaponry" would make any difference -
could you help me understand?

[worldcitizen1723]

You all can talk about hunting and sport all you want but the 2nd ammendment is to protect ourselves from tyrannical government.

Yep, NOW we're talking.

The U.S. government would steamroll and make this a police state if they could. They keep trying, ever so slowly and subtley, but all those pesky firearms kind of make them nervous.

This isn't, and won't be Germany, circa 1939.

it isn't a police state??

[Nimrod]

You all can talk about hunting and sport all you want but the 2nd ammendment is to protect ourselves from tyrannical government.

Yep, NOW we're talking.

The U.S. government would steamroll and make this a police state if they could. They keep trying, ever so slowly and subtley, but all those pesky firearms kind of make them nervous.

This isn't, and won't be Germany, circa 1939.

it isn't a police state??

It is, just not an outright police state.

An example of how the police are -never- wrong...

Allegedly, the car these people were in was known to backfire, which can simulate a gunshot. Not known why these people wouldn't stop when chased, and it ended very badly for them, with no evidence that they had fired a weapon or even had one in the vehicle.

It took thirteen police, twelve white, one hispanic, 137 shots to kill two apparently unarmed blacks. Despite all of their firearms training, five-o is a notoriously bad shot.

Can you say assumptive and over-reactive?

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ss ... oting.html 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/0 ... 39675.html i

[worldcitizen1723]

Can you say assumptive and over-reactive?

i

Yes I can!

It is a police state. Our gentile version of one, but none the less....

That is why I say having a gun is not protection against government agencies

[sam]

What about us gun owners that like to target shoot and hunt do we get screwed over because some idiot killed some people? Seriously what next ban knives because you can stab someone and kill them, hell lets outlaw baseball bats because you can kill someone with one of those to. I am so tired of this anti gun BS everytime some nut job shoots someone. This is my opinion on the subject and the opinion of the majority thankfully.

Some exceptions can and should(?) be made like rod, gun, and hunt clubs; shooting ranges where one can use a range-owned weapon. Hmm, I think this already happens, just not mandatory.
Although I understand your point, your argument is faulty beyond belief.
I can kill with just about any object, a pen or pencil for example, should we outlaw those as well?
Automobiles kill more people than guns, so does alcohol.
Baseball bats, pens, pencils, cars, alcohol, etc... weren't designed to kill, wait for it......................... guns are, it's their only purpose in design.
It's one of many excuses the NRA has used for years and it's as stupid and ignorant as when they first said it.

For all you gun lovers, go pry the guns out of the dead cold hands of the 27 innocent (law abiding) adults and children who were murdered on the 14th.
Let's not forget the 100,000's that have been killed as well.
It is long past overdue that Americans end their torrid love affair with all things guns.
Just my opinion on the matter...
...

Talk about an argument that if faulty beyond belief. Only rod, gun, and hunting clubs or shooting ranges were you rent guns. Yes that would be great then only the rich could shoot guns, so you only hate us poor people then? Guns are designed for target shooting also.
What guns in the cold dead hands of the 27 innocent adults and children who were murdered. Are you so high that now you think the victims had the guns?
I really like my torrid love affair with guns and Ron this is nothing personal with you so please do not take it that way we are just not on the same page on this subject and no matter what the other one says we will never agree. That is actually a good thing because if we all agreed it would be a very sad world.

[redeyezman]

Fight the government? GASP! What a whack job!

Hail Government! Hail Government! Hail Government!

^^^^^sarcasm^^^^^^

You do realize you sound like a bit of a paranoid redneck with your little fight the government with my guns rant?

I realize people will SEE things however they want. .....Think about it for longer than a second.....You're reading right? A ball point pen is newer technology than say a 6-shooter .38 special.....Pen mightier than the sword?

hey red- really are not ALL governments tyrannical to some extent? (obviously some more than others) but is not that the nature of government?

Yes. Absolutely. Always going to be criminals at every level. My thought is one system has 10,000 problems and the other has 100,000 what one is best for greater good? I hope people don't expect me to compare apples to oranges....not sure how people don't accept the simplest solution can often be the best.........only thing stopping bad guy with gun, is good guy with gun...KISS?...what else can be done in those precious seconds after bad men do bad things? Cell phone pics? Let the video cameras pic it up, and we will search, catch, prosecute, house, feed, and ultimately release back into society....

i really do not see how in "modern weaponry" would make any difference -
could you help me understand?

I mean clearly I don't mean a one man show like in the movies....lol....element of surprise.... coordination.....thugs already using text messaging for mass assaults on poor victims......no job is to big if you divide it into many small jobs....i could elaborate a shit ton i suppose, but would rather go smoke another one.....isn't this shit im spouting all well long documented "Art of War" type shit.....peace

[redeyezman]

I really like my torrid love affair with guns and Ron this is nothing personal with you so please do not take it that way we are just not on the same page on this subject and no matter what the other one says we will never agree. That is actually a good thing because if we all agreed it would be a very sad world.

That is the thing with social issues. They are social issues. All grey. Fiscal is all black/white IMO...Anyway when people are personally effected by guns, things become.......grey. The majority of regular people never seen gun violence, but everyone saw 9/11 live....and that traumatized them so much they take on the attitude: "If what you were saying was the truth about 9/11 I wouldn't believe you anyway."

We all have opinion on guns, but we all smoke a shit ton of good weed too, so as long as we become MORE peaceful human race then IMO the strongest ARE surviving.....peace and prosperity is to easy.....its probably the only thing that is ACTUALLY "too easy" since the rest of this shit does nothing but support military industrial complex....and FUCK that shit....we just want simple defense...

[treetop]

Yesterday I was watching an NRA press conference where they criticized the media for its coverage of the recent shootings and proposed that armed volunteer guards be put in every school in the USA. They have an ex senator heading up the initiative.

In effect it would amount to armed militia protecting their own. Was this the way things were envisioned when the constitution was written? That guns would be needed not to protect people from a tyrannical government but from its own citizens?

If the NRA plan is adopted I wonder how many accidental shootings we are going to see in schools as these guards shoot the innocent or lose their gun to a child who then shoots another kid or themselves.

I watch with interest to see what happens. Amazing really that there is any debate at all. After Dunblane in the UK pretty much everyone agreed that handguns had to be banned. Even gun enthusiasts.

How long before we get the right wing conspiracies claiming the Newtown killings were fabricated or 'set up' by the government. I find it all quite sad cos it is so simple. You just need to talk to one another and start by saying...'You know we have a great constitution but it was written over 200 years ago so maybe we should get a chance to update it so no more innocent people get needlessly murdered.'

However that will never happen.


Instead I'd declare an amnesty for all illegal guns and I'd force gun companies to give a full refund to all registered owners who want to return them.

After that I'd go the bullet route too as it is the only practical way to proceed anyway. Also it will give the DEA something to do when they are disbanded. They can become the BEA (Bullet Enforcement Agency). Make bullets the bad guys. Pass a federal law. Enforce it. Prosecute it.

People can still legally keep their guns and use them at the range but bullets are not going to be cheap. After all taxes on bullets need to pay for all the arrests and investigations the BEA are going to make.

Make an advertising campaign. 'If you own bullets everyone you know is a potential Adam Lanza.' Get rid of your bullets or go to jail. Something like that.

Now all those guns and all that gun metal are going to need to be put to good use. Maybe they could be melted down and made into a learning playground or roofing for hospitals, police stations and schools.

OR....

...just give EVERYONE a gun and make it a law that you must wear it. Just like in that cowboy town out west someplace where they have a local ordinance requiring all residents to wear a gun in public. They have like ZERO street crime there apparently.

I wonder why?

Also I wonder how a similar ordinance would go down in say New York City for example?

[Stanky Danky]

Another possible solution for schools that I've not seen anyone mention anywhere is to heavily fortify the schools with blast proof doors and bullet proof glass and once the kids are in the school for the day lock it up like a prison to keep the psychos out.

[worldcitizen1723]

In NYC with our tough gun laws we have murder rates down to the lowest numbers in decades.
No need for shoot outs in the streets. Civilized people do not need guns on their hips.

[Lazaris]

as long as our societies remain fear-based instead of love-based killing will go on

it doesn't matter how people are killed or what people are killed, killing is killing

killing has been going on for a VERY long time, and as long as people act from fear it will continue

this question, is individual and personal, it is more of an internal issues and much less external

this last killing is a tragedy no doubt, but there are so many children and women killed every day all around the world that it's interesting that those tragedies are pretty much swept under the rug, while this tragedy is blown all out of proportion in comparison to those

which shows that media is using our awareness for its own profit...as always

[Uncle Ron]

An open letter to my fellow humans,
Since man became aware of itself, it has been learning from achievements and failures. It builds on those achievements and rectifies its failures. A modern term given to explain this process is called lessons learned. Man learned that fire provided warmth, a form of preparing food, and also that it is destructive. How do we come to know this? The lessons learned were passed down from generation to generation. We are first taught basic lessons learned like don't touch hot objects, look both ways before crossing a road, don't stick a metal object into an electric socket/mains, and don't piss into the wind boys. Most of us have learned these lessons, it's the failure of applying them that have led to burns, being hit by vehicles, electrocutions, and boys pissing in their own faces.

More guns nor more gun laws are the solution, it's much easier than that.
The solution is for ALL to apply lessons learned. Until such time, we will continue to shoot and kill each other and our children.

Now, for a few special peeps...

Sam, ever been to a shooting range?
The last thing you would think is that shooting ranges are for the wealthy. I used to frequent a shooting range in Fayetteville, NC and didn't spend more than $10 to use the range (first paper target was free). Next, I'm not wealthy.. my income bracket is in the lower 1/3 of the US population, and from my observation, so were most of those who were using the range. Rod, Gun, and Hunt clubs were the same. It is a fact that there are "exclusive" clubs, so what?
The comment about the dead was a metaphor lost in translation, never mind.
Don't take this personal? On the wrong page? WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU? Twenty six innocent children and adults were gunned down in an elementary school on Friday, 14 December 2012. I TAKE THIS VERY PERSONAL, and so should you and every human being. Get on that page, the one I've been on all along...

Nimrod, don't even get me started. You know me better than most on this forum, so you know your comments directed at me are BS. No worries...

There are viable solutions to minimize these senseless killings, but given Man's propensity towards difference, it will be very difficult to find common ground.
Most will agree that something needs to be done, so as people discuss solutions, more innocent will be killed.
If I were a religious person, I would pray that God have mercy on us all, for man is indifferent and incapable.
...

[sam]

Ron I have been to several shooting ranges and they are not $10 anymore, that must have been a long time ago.
I said do not take it personal because even though I do not post on here all the time I do read it often. You take offense and act like a little kid anytime someone does not agree with you and when you are proven wrong you never admit it you just pull out the I was playing devils advocate thing. I am done with this topic and have a good day Ron as you need one if everytime someone get shot you take it personal.