Dutch property pricesgoing south

[Slip & Sal]

As for owning property in Spain, it may not be for everyone, but I think for investment purposes would be better suited than The Netherlands.

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Whilst the Dutch property market has also seen a fair amount of decline in prices, the demand for housing there is pretty high and it won't take as long to turn around as the Spanish market.

What's your view?

This is sorta of my veiw. I would be interested in Spain as well. I do think that Amsterdam in particular would be a good investment. You have a lot of business types there, but do you think Rotterdam could be better? Remember this is for investment. There are some rules I can not holiday there or rent it out to myself or family. I can not use it and all money from it must go back to the fund for retirement.

If I wasn't living there would it effect Spain/Netherlands?

[Uncle Ron]

Ok, seems I may have been mixing apples and oranges... both are fruit, round, and can be thrown at someone like me (but please don't)...
If strictly for investment purposes, there are pros and cons with both countries, however if I had the resources and wanted to invest in real estate, Spain.
I think the real estate market in The Netherlands had its ups and downs as with any country/region. Given the limited space for residential expansion, even with a slow real estate market, it won't take long for it to rebound. The Netherlands being such a small country, and attractive for immigration, "south going prices" won't go very far south, and not for very long. Those who buy low should never forget - as the property value increases, so will the property taxes. As I commented in a previous post, many examples of people investing in real estate only to find their investment lost due to increases in property taxes (horrific thought - without increase in property value). Some still think they can buy property, then within a short period of time (less than 2yrs) flip it for profit. Sort of like owning a Ferrari... I have enough to buy one, however my problem is that I don't have sufficient capitol to pay the annual taxes/registration/assorted asinine road usage fees (I like to eat)...
If I were to invest in real estate in Spain, I would buy undeveloped land, mainly in zones designated for residential and agriculture. I would sit on the land until the market recovered, and then perhaps a little longer. I prefer my investments like fine wines, allow them to age properly over time for the greatest results (all things considered).

If one decides to purchase property in The Netherlands, may I suggest going Dutch? ........................oh yes I did....
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[SatoriKarma]

I would be interested in Spain as well. I do think that Amsterdam in particular would be a good investment. You have a lot of business types there, but do you think Rotterdam could be better? Remember this is for investment.

I don't really know the Dutch property market well enough to be able to comment on where the best place might be to invest in property. A lot depends on what kind of growth you're looking for—capital asset growth (the underlying value of the investment increases year on year) or return on investment via rental income.

As an example let's say you invest €100,000 in place A and place B over a 10 year time frame. After 10 years place A has improved in value to €150,000 and place B to €175,000. However place A has generated a monthly rental income of €1,500 a month and place B only €1,000 a month. Which one produces the greatest asset value increase in the 10 year period? Place A produces only €50,000 capital growth but €180,000 in rental income to total €230,000. Place B produces €75,000 capital growth but only €120,00 rental income to total €195,000. Obviously, buying costs, selling costs, taxes, running costs etc need to be taken into consideration as well.

Given that the rental yield is by far the larger of the two figures, it may be better to focus on where would produce the most rental income as a ratio to the capital invested.

This is why I don't think Spain is a very good place to invest in property at the moment. Yes prices are cheap, but because there are so many properties on the market rental yields are low and capital growth could take as long as 10-20 years to start happening. Amsterdam property prices on the other hand whilst also having declined, the rental yields are still high and there is still high demand for rental properties in Amsterdam and that will continue for the foreseeable future given the limited amount of rental properties available.

My situation is slightly different to yours in the sense I already have a property in Spain but I don't want/can't either rent it out or live in it full time. I can only stay there for up to 6 months at a time and therefore need another apartment to live in for the other 6 months. This is why I'm looking at a small apartment in Amsterdam for the other 6 months. I'm also looking at it over a 10 year timeframe and I believe that within 10 years the property prices in Amsterdam will have started rising again from where they are at the moment.

[SatoriKarma]

Given the limited space for residential expansion, even with a slow real estate market, it won't take long for it to rebound. The Netherlands being such a small country, and attractive for immigration, "south going prices" won't go very far south, and not for very long. Those who buy low should never forget - as the property value increases, so will the property taxes.

Well I agree that property prices in The Netherlands won't take long to recover.

Can you explain a little more about what you mean by 'property taxes' increasing? I have limited knowledge of the Dutch property market and as I understand it there are two taxes you have to pay. One is to the local municipality and is based on the WOZ valuation and is set at a fixed percentage of the WOZ property valuation and the other is a percentage value on the assumed rental value of the property paid to the central tax office. Do you know what these percentages are and/or what the likely total tax liability might be on a central Amsterdam apartment valued at around €150k?

[Slip & Sal]

How much do Amsterdam apartments rent for to local/residents?

[Bocco]

Well, there's been an abundance of houses for sale now so it could take quite a while to recover is my guess.
What I do know is if you want to rent in The Netherlands now is an excellent time.

[Lafe]

Well, there's been an abundance of houses for sale now so it could take quite a while to recover is my guess.
What I do know is if you want to rent in The Netherlands now is an excellent time.

If people begin to lose their houses, the rental market becomes robust and rental prices go up. That is what has happened in the U.S. We're turning the corner slowly, but it will take a long time to recover.

Many of the "housing start" news reports here fail to mention there are a significant number of multi-renter (a.k.a. "apartment buildings") units being constructed.

[Marco]

BE Careful!!!! Anyone thinking of buying a place here and renting it should get very familiar with Dutch tenant protection laws. A tenant here has most of the power.

[elasticband]

De Huurcommissie and Tennant protection laws are a private landlords worst nightmare.

[Slip & Sal]

De Huurcommissie and Tennant protection laws are a private landlords worst nightmare.

BE Careful!!!! Anyone thinking of buying a place here and renting it should get very familiar with Dutch tenant protection laws. A tenant here has most of the power.

cheers things you need to know.

[SatoriKarma]

BE Careful!!!! Anyone thinking of buying a place here and renting it should get very familiar with Dutch tenant protection laws. A tenant here has most of the power.

From the limited research I've done so far, I would agree with that comment.

However, from what I can tell the tenant protection laws apply primarily to long tenancies in the controlled social housing sector. I'm not so sure the same rules apply in the 'free' rental market or short term lets to overseas visitors or expatriates. They certainly don't appear to apply to short term lets of say 3 months by a returning owner occupier on a property rented in the free market. Although those type situations seem to require a rental permit from the local authority.

As with most things it just needs research.

[Kingdoc]

1.000 euro per maand! oke lol.