Personal weapons

[Alaskan Biker]

Also was curious about the 9mm comment. I have known many 'gun' guys thru the years and that was also the first thing they would bring up. Something about he gangstas and their weak ass 9's, and how pathetic it was that everyone thinks 9's are the be-all end-all..................I have no idea personally, i have just heard that same kinda comment soooo many times.

Utopia sure is a beautiful idea tho.

I don't usually talk guns it's a boring subject even if they are a tool in my life but here goes

I agree and disagree with those guys you mentioned actually a 9mm is just enough on a human out in the open....I would not want to go smaller but unless your in a war if you can shoot it's enough

Bears though are a different story even the small lower 48 size bears described in this thread a 9mm is not going to do anything except make it mad or kill it long after by infection simply put all bullets are not created equal and if the bullet does not have the power to penetrate to the vital areas it's just going to get stuck in the fat and muscle or skull

Even though some on here may think you could empty the whole clip and that would work.....actually same effect with one major difference I think after the 1st round hits the bear and gets his attention that by the firing of the 2nd or 3rd round he will have covered the distance and somebody will be watching parts of their anatomy being ripped off and if the bear is in the mood...eatin alive.

If a 9mm was all I had with me and I was having a BAD bear encounter I would not even take the shot I might shoot the ground to the right or left of it if it was charging hoping I might get lucky and the sound might back it up and make it rethink but actually shoot it with any too small of a weapon....NO WAY...there is a small chance I might possibly survive the attack but if I piss it off ALL ADULT BEARS are fighters and a mad one is going to keep working on you long past what's necessary to just get you out of it's way and that's often fatal enough without making it worse.

a 12ga is the very minimum for large bear and never use buckshot only use slugs on a large bear

Rifle is best -- 416 Weatherby Mag / 375 H&H Mag / 416 Remington Mag

The anatomy of a bear is a fearsome thing and they are designed for one thing combat to the death with their own kind they are designed so well that is the reason a fight to the death almost never happens and you see Browns up here weighing in at over a ton from time to time and most everyone has seen the 2400 pounder stuffed and mounted down in Anchorage at Diamond Mall.
The thing is 1500-1800lbs is just normal in the north and they walk anywhere they want to any damn time they please including through peoples doors and windows...........so far all my wild animal encounters have been good ones bear and all and everyone has gone their way alive and well but a good gun is always a good idea for the few out there that are sick and diseased and their brain is messed up or the one that is just plain mean and born with a bad attitude.

[ga]

it remember me
Tim Willock's 'Green River Rising'

[Alaskan Biker]

damn that's a long post obviously I am higher than I thought

[pansTX420]

I have only had to use it twice once the bear ran with the first shot (did not shoot at the bear). The second time we were in Wyoming and a mt loin came around the bend did not take the hint and there is no more mt lion. Also we are not talking about Kodiak's. Everybody has their preference I guess but I have never needed anything more it is cheap to load and shoot. really it should be enough if you can shoot and put it in the right place and with it being this cheap to shoot I do it often enough to be fairly descent. Also for Bear we load them very heavy And make Pan carry the 308( when in bear country) Mostly cats where we are once a year we go into bear country to prospect for a few weeks (Pan grew up there so he is a little melodramatic sometimes) Also I think pans not quite right on the full metal jacked thing they are hybrids part metal jacket to penetrate and then made so that they can expand, and a 45 might be better for just the bears but a little much for every thing else we do, so we adjust the bullets

[Rez]

We do not carry weapons to be cool or tough it is truly a necessity and we only carry them in the wilderness.

I've been reading this thread and I find it interesting to hear how different our lives are... I'm in north london so no bears here, just assholes, gangsta wannabees and bad boy coke dealers...

I was going to ask if anybody has actually had to kill an animal in self defence but thats been answered.

The only weapons I've ever had/carried was a telescopic baton when working as a doorman in the centre of town (london)... the trouble with that is that it is a criminal offence to carry a "made" weapon, weather it be for self defence or not. I was told by the police that just having the baton on my person was an offence... I was (still am) a licenced doorman, if I had of used my baton in public it would have been me doing time and losing my licence. I never pulled it out once in the 6 years i worked the doors, but if the occasion arose (group of bottle yielding drunks) it was going to be their arms getting broken and not my face.... the police also told me that had I have picked up a chair and broken the leg off to use as a weapon to defend myself, that would have been ok as I had not gone to work with an offensive weapon... what a crock of shit our society is. i do feel somewhat unsafe even when walking the dog in the local park at night... the dog lead and chain is my only defence... but like i said, no bears in my local park either

i've got a small baseball bat that i keep just inside my front door

we used to have some nice tall wooden stalls

[pansTX420]

Brown bear


Latin Name: Ursus Arctos
Subfamily: Ursinae
Ursus Arctos Linnaeus, 1758.


SIZE:

There is considerable variability in the size of brown bears from different populations, depending on the food available. Determining representative weights of specific populations is also difficult as there are seasonal considerations to take into account-for instance, some bears can weigh twice as much in the fall as they might weigh in spring. Adult males may weigh 135 to 390 kilograms (300 to 860 pounds), in the lower 48 states; the average weight can be 600 pounds. In Alaska and Canada, average weight can be 900 pounds for males. Compared with 95 to 205 kilograms (205 to 455 pounds) for females. In the lower 48 states, the average weight can be 300 pounds. Alaska and Canada average weight is 500 pounds for females. At birth, cubs weigh 340 to 680 grams (11 ounces to 1 pound 6 ounces).


Adult Weight: Most wild male black bears weigh between 125 and 500 pounds, while females generally weigh between 90 and 300 pounds. Their weight depends upon their age, the season of the year

[cattales1960]

Your all talking peas and carrots... I can see if you have to protect yourself from bears and mountain lions. Totally understandable. Or in the case of the meat loving population, as a sport. But let me ask you all this, have you ever seen a 22 yr old boy shot execution style because he was selling his drugs on the rival gang members corner? Or how about the brother who shot his blood brother over using the last of the toilet paper?? I have. I am a trauma nurse specialist and work in a big inner city trauma hospital and I see it all. The most heart breaking one is the one who has been shoot in the head and your responsible for telling the family that thier son or daughter will survive only to be in a persistant vegetative state. I am not against banning guns for the sake hunting or as in alaskas case, protection from bears, but something should be done to get guns out of the hands of young kids. As I said, peas and carrots.

[pan4gold49]

Hi

I agree that guns should be kept away from children. I myself started shooting when I was 7 or 8 by the time I turned 12 was an expert shot at long rifle. Our daughter who is now 11 can shoot we have shown her both sides along with the rules. First rule Never pull a weapon in anger!!! Two guns and booze don't mix. three never lock and load unless you are going to shoot the weapon. All of our guns are unloaded execpt one that one has a trigger lock and all but one are in a gun safe.

Frank

[711]

and most everyone has seen the 2400 pounder stuffed and mounted down in Anchorage at Diamond Mall.

I'm from the east coast and even I have seen that bear. =P

[pan4gold49]

Man thats one big bear if I ever go to the yukon by fairbanks I will get me bigger gun!!!

[pan4gold49]

I have a question is it legal to own swords and knifes in the uk or nl??

We have a small collection the oldest being a chinese war sword circa 1870s.

[Alaskan Biker]

Brown bear


Latin Name: Ursus Arctos
Subfamily: Ursinae
Ursus Arctos Linnaeus, 1758.


SIZE:

There is considerable variability in the size of brown bears from different populations, depending on the food available. Determining representative weights of specific populations is also difficult as there are seasonal considerations to take into account-for instance, some bears can weigh twice as much in the fall as they might weigh in spring. Adult males may weigh 135 to 390 kilograms (300 to 860 pounds), in the lower 48 states; the average weight can be 600 pounds. In Alaska and Canada, average weight can be 900 pounds for males. Compared with 95 to 205 kilograms (205 to 455 pounds) for females. In the lower 48 states, the average weight can be 300 pounds. Alaska and Canada average weight is 500 pounds for females. At birth, cubs weigh 340 to 680 grams (11 ounces to 1 pound 6 ounces).


Adult Weight: Most wild male black bears weigh between 125 and 500 pounds, while females generally

not sure where you got this from and seriously check for yourself you will see all kinds of weights listed on all kinds of different websites and it has always made me wonder who supposedly gets out in the field and does the actual research.

pretty much the average normal weight for an Alaskan Brown or a Polar Bear is about 1500 lbs but also keep in mind that my early quotes are the trophy bears you see in the paper up here that these DAMN #%&* tourist hunters come up here and shoot for Fuc%&$#@ bragging rights
also the time of year is key they are always largest in the fall and about half starved by the end of winter.

spent a little time near you in Montana and I am familiar with the size of bear down that way and please rethink using a 9mm it's your life man I just know I never would and can not recommend it.

a 9mm on a mountain lion if your a good shot I can well believe and since you are typing you must be a good shot but study on this for a moment to penetrate to that bears vital organs that bullet would have to penetrate over twice as deep as that entire mountain lion was wide and then it would only still be deep enough to tickle the organs and not do the necessary damage after traveling through all that liquid blood and tissue absorbing all that bullets energy every inch it has to penetrate until it comes to a dead stop.


got to admit would not mind hearing more about down that way always meant to go check out the mountains in Utah but never made it

[pan4gold49]

Ak Biker

I reload all but the rounds I buy for target shooting. This is normal for back woods use 9mm .355" 147 gr. Silvertip® Hollow Point in special load. Heck I even have made rounds for the 9mm that are armor perceing out of special material. I would love to show off the out of way places in utah.

[foxflag]

I'm in the Pacific NW and alot of citizens are armed. We have concealed weapon permits available here and violent crime is very low. If going in the woods, I carry a .40 cal GLOCK with a high capacity clip that holds 18 rounds. Cougar, bear encounters are rare but do occur. Around town I carry a .380 Sig Sauer. Never had to pull it in 17+ yrs. We go to the shooting range about 4 times a yr to keep in practice. We have remote wilderness areas here that abound with bear, cougar, elk, deer, etc. Most everyone is armed when camping, fishing, hunting in woods.

[Rez]

Most everyone is armed when camping, fishing, hunting in woods.

That I can 100% agree with and understand... I wonder though, carrying such a "defensive" weapon; should somebody find themselves in a inner city location and needing to pull a gun, would you. I've been in a few confrontational positions and I've had to make some big decissions quite quickly... pulling a gun in public surely will end with a fatality...?

Am I right in assuming that those that carry a gun ARE prepaired to kill another human; should that dreaded "life or death" situation actually happen?