Trip 3 - 17 Strains. 1 Whitey. 1 Rash. 3 Cuts & An Epic Time

[Lamont]

Very nice report, thanks for taking time to write it up!

[Babbalonian]

Ok cool, sounds good, and if you really want to enjoy those flavours, then I recommend getting a Volcano or Verdamper, as you really can taste it much better than bongs or joints

It's always good to get an apartment instead of a room, and I hope you have a good trip in June.

I have a Wispr vape. Never really been able to 'taste' very much from using it but will give it a try this time

I'll be staying right by the Nieuwmarkt so should still be able to find some trouble! Thankfully will be keeping away from the trains so no standing in the middle of nowhere feeling like a tard!

[Jesscass]

Thanks for your report,Babbalonian!

I'm with you when it comes to quality of random strains grown well. As long as they are grown well they can easily compete with the stuff coffeeshops sell nowadays, on average they are even better! I'm too speaking from experience. Especially since a grower doing it for hisself or his circle is caring a lot more than a grower supplying coffeeshops for profit(less pesticides or other stuff, nicely flushed and cured etc.).

@Kingbee
Prices: if weed or moroccan hash is cheaper than elsewhere or lets say the UK this doesn’t say much apart from Spain being in a different situation than the UK economically. Also Morocco is not too far away from Spain either.
Pretty much reminds me of talk of mostly western vacationers travelling this planet and claiming a country in the so called Third World would be a much better place to live than their western homes. All said from a holiday point of view(with pockets full of money). They never LIVED there. Otherwise they would know more about national income standards and living costs, economic situations and all that.
Why not compare hash prices from India with those in western countries(India is too far away and Spain still in Europe, right?)? Bit ignorant.

[Babbalonian]

Thanks for your report,Babbalonian!

I'm with you when it comes to quality of random strains grown well. As long as they are grown well they can easily compete with the stuff coffeeshops sell nowadays, on average they are even better! I'm too speaking from experience. Especially since a grower doing it for hisself or his circle is caring a lot more than a grower supplying coffeeshops for profit(less pesticides or other stuff, nicely flushed and cured etc.).

@Kingbee
Prices: if weed or moroccan hash is cheaper than elsewhere or lets say the UK this doesn’t say much apart from Spain being in a different situation than the UK economically. Also Morocco is not too far away from Spain either.
Pretty much reminds me of talk of mostly western vacationers travelling this planet and claiming a country in the so called Third World would be a much better place to live than their western homes. All said from a holiday point of view(with pockets full of money). They never LIVED there. Otherwise they would know more about national income standards and living costs, economic situations and all that.
Why not compare hash prices from India with those in western countries(India is too far away and Spain still in Europe, right?)? Bit ignorant.

Exactly! The main difference is my buddy grows to SMOKE not primarily to SELL. Hence its always beautifully cured and lovely big ounces.

Comparing it to the weed this trip I'd have taken 3 of the strains back if I could out of the 17 I tried. Obviously a lot of the fun in Amsterdam is just the culture of being able to smoke in a coffeeshop or amble round a park with a joint without wondering if the plod are going to nab you. Maybe Snoop and B-Real are right, does Cali have the best weed these days??

[Babbalonian]

Very nice report, thanks for taking time to write it up!

Thankee Sir! I see you're in San Francisco... What's the herb like out there? As good as they say?

[Lamont]

Very nice report, thanks for taking time to write it up!

Thankee Sir! I see you're in San Francisco... What's the herb like out there? As good as they say?

I have to admit we are pretty spoiled out here. An abundance of high quality medicinal cannabis, all of it well grown and cured. A network of friends with prescriptions really helps Last batch was a mix of OG Kush and Blue Cheese

[kingbee]

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[Babbalonian]

Very nice report, thanks for taking time to write it up!

Thankee Sir! I see you're in San Francisco... What's the herb like out there? As good as they say?

I have to admit we are pretty spoiled out here. An abundance of high quality medicinal cannabis, all of it well grown and cured. A network of friends with prescriptions really helps Last batch was a mix of OG Kush and Blue Cheese

Jealous!! On my 2nd trip I met a couple of fellas (brothers) one was from D.C (not happy with his quality of weed there) whereas Davis just grinned when he showed me his Cali med card

He said the Green Crack and OG Kush are the best strains he's had in Cali

[Babbalonian]

@Kingbee
Prices: if weed or moroccan hash is cheaper than elsewhere or lets say the UK this doesn’t say much apart from Spain being in a different situation than the UK economically. Also Morocco is not too far away from Spain either.
Pretty much reminds me of talk of mostly western vacationers travelling this planet and claiming a country in the so called Third World would be a much better place to live than their western homes. All said from a holiday point of view(with pockets full of money). They never LIVED there. Otherwise they would know more about national income standards and living costs, economic situations and all that.
Why not compare hash prices from India with those in western countries(India is too far away and Spain still in Europe, right?)? Bit ignorant.

I think you've got me wrong, I do live outside the UK, and have lived in Spain, and spent long holidays in Morocco (months at a time), WITHOUT "pockets full of money", and I'm also factoring in the cost of living.

E.g. it doesn't cost much more to live in Amsterdam than it does in Madrid (in terms of rental prices, utilities, etc ), yet in Amsterdam the herb and hash costs around 2-3 times as much!

That is because coffeeshops in the Dam are profiteering and financially exploiting tourists. The old excuse "Amsterdam is an expensive city" seems all too common 'justification' for ripping people off of their hard earned coin.

The price of herb is going up so much now, that it's not long before it'll be 20 Euros a gram!! That is utterly ridiculous for a place that has decriminalised cannabis!

A lot of people are now staying away from the Dam due to the prices, (and general quality, especially Americans), either to other places, or staying in their home countries, and I don't blame them....it was a bitter pill to swallow in paying some of the high prices on a recent trip, but like everyone, we try to justify it as "an experience", and try to put the prices to the back of your mind, but when you smoke pure and it's costing 5 Euros for each moderately a sized joint, then you know the greedy coffeeshop owners are literally raking it in!

It would be interesting to hear about how much net profit (legal and illegal) that some of the bigger shops are taking in, and then you'd realise how we're all being mugged off and they are living the high life (literally!).

It is also worth noting that the income tax rate in the Netherlands is very high (nearly 40% basic), so if you work and live there, you get stung on tax AND coffeeshop prices!

Whereas in Spain the tax rate is more like 20%, with cheap herbs & hash.

In other words, Amsterdam is a playground for rich tourists (i.e. most people on here), and not a place to move to, to live and work, not unless you've got a very high paying job.

If you are a serious toker, and not rich from hard work or crime, then stay away from Amsterdam for living purposes, and want to go there on holiday, then you'd better get saving, as high quality samples in the Dam will quickly empty your wallet!

A lot of good points made. The thing is for many of us the extra bit of money you pay is worth it to be able to sit in a coffeeshop & do as you please. As you say though it would be VERY interesting to know what kind of profit is being made by the bigger shops

With regards to prices. I pay £160 (friend price) for my herb. Usually in my city an ounce is approx £240. So a quick bit of math...

£160 (an ounce) is about £5.70 a gram.
£240 is about £8.57 a gram.

I was paying Centrum prices in the 15/16 Euro range. 1E Hulp & places like Katsu it was nearer the 10/12 Euro mark.

£11 a gram in Barney's etc or £7.30 (for the 10 Euro a gram shops) once converted.

So to me if you buy outside of the main tourist strip the herb is still cheaper in Amsterdam than the UK. Plus you get to chill in a coffeeshop.

Should it be cheaper? Yes, but I don't think we're being ripped off that badly.... Just my POV but as I'll be staying in an apartment in June where I can use a bong etc maybe I'll see things differently as most purchases will be buy n flys.

With regard to Spain. I thought the clubs pretty much barred tourists or made you jump through too many hoops to get a card to make it worthwhile? Maybe we'll see a change in Amsterdam if/when somewhere like France or Germany legalises as then The Dam won't be an 'exclusive' market anymore?


Peace

P.S - Easter Monday. Bit stoned. My maths could be all over the place!!!

[kingbee]

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[bundy1983]

The fact that it's tolerated under the law in the Dam should mean lower prices in general, as criminality is what usually drives prices, and the price of bud (in developed countries) is usually directly related to how illegal it is.

The prices in the UK have been rocketing up over the last few years, and it's got really stupid, mainly because weed is fashionable in Hollywood, and in rap/pop music, and all the young teens and people in their 20s want to seem to be cool.

They are the ones driving the stupid prices, not older, more experienced tokers like us, hence the reason why we pay lower prices (e.g. £160 an ounce).

It's all about supply and demand: if you ask older heads to pay £240+ for an oz, they will laugh at you and tell you to f-off, but the youngsters will lap it up, along with the fake names like Lemon ("Super lemon haze").

The youngsters often can't afford to go on holiday in the Dam blowing money, and the older ones pay the higher prices in the Dam, because they A) have more money in general, B) are only paying on the gram and not on the ounce (16E a gram equates to £330 an ounce!!), and C) they are on holiday and trying to relax/not worry about money.

Another major driving factor with Dam prices is the French and Italian tourists: laws are stricter in those countries, quality is usually not good and availability is more difficult than the UK, where every man and his dog is growing a bit of bud, or knows someone that does (or a mate of a mate). In Italy and France it's difficult unless you really know people, and even then it's limited. These Italians and French are a constant fixture in the Dam and will happily spend stupid money on cannabis products, thus further 'justifying' the high prices for the coffeeshops.

So the UK street prices shouldn't be what they are (i.e. silly money for average smoke, mostly for clueless wannabes), and there are SO many Italians and French in the Dam blindly paying whatever the budtender asks for, that the coffeeshop owners are lapping it up and will happily take "free money" (i.e. the extra, easily available profit possible), and human greed takes over (like the younger UK dealers: greed rules the day).

When I first started going to the Dam back in around '99, there was none of this ridiculously-high pricing; it was around £3 a gram for good bud, based on 25 Guilders for a bag, which was the standard price at the time. In contrast, it was about £100 an ounce in the UK.

Prices stayed relatively low in both countries until around 2007/8, which is when prices started going up exponentially, compared to inflation.

At first, it wasn't too bad, but then around 2010/11, it started getting silly, and the prices kept going up and up, at a shocking rate, and now we've arrived at 16E a gram in the Dam being "acceptable" for good bud....F*ck Off!! What a load of old b0llocks! - it's only that price due to greed!

The grower gets around 7000 Euros per kilo, 8000 if you were really lucky and had the most amazing bud, so that leaves a HELLUVA margin! Especially for shops moving half a key to a full key a DAY on busy days, which is easily done for the bigger well-known shops in full tourist season, meaning they constantly have their suppliers bringing more gear from the stash house throughout the day, as coffeeshops can only carry half a kilo at a time.

That added to expensive coffees and 'inventive' book-keeping, mean that the owners of the shops are netting hundreds of thousands of Euros every year. I'd hesitate to say a million Euros a year net profit, but at least half a million would be very possible I'd have thought.

It's surprising you say about Katsu's prices being affordable, because I found it to be one of the most rip-off shops in the Dam, and after going in there and seeing the prices, I chose NOT to buy anything, because I WON'T fund or solicite such high prices, as doing so would add to encouraging them to keep it like that. So I made a point to the (older) female budtender that her prices were too high, to which she answered that they have bags of non-descript shake for something like 10 Euros a gram! Don't make me laugh!! The best bud was about 17 or 18 Euros a gram, for Dr. Grinspoon, a strain I was getting in Spain recently for 6.50 a gram!!

You can go to a Spanish club today if you want, as there are still clubs that will just let you in without residency, but those clubs are getting less in number, however it's still possible, and if you get residency there, you can join any club.

I think a fair price for top buds in the Dam is 11 or 12 Euros a gram, and that's pushing it, with the majority of strains priced 9-10 Euros, and the older strains 6-9 Euros a gram. THOSE would be FAIR prices for the Dam, and if all customers were like me, then THAT is what the prices would be, as we would refuse to be ripped off, but since SO MANY people are happy with being ripped off by greedy coffeeshop owners, then the prices will stay as they are, and CONTINUE to increase!

When in the Netherlands, I get most of my decent stuff that I smoke there from people I know, and get excellent quality at good prices, and so it doesn't affect me that much, but when I want to sample a few buds from the shops, I am always shocked by the prices and also the general lack of quality...having grown better bud than is available in most of the Dam, in relatively large quantities, and having smoked that all day "for free", I find it ridiculous paying 16-18 Euros a GRAM for something similar!

The thing is i cant get a lot of the stains at home that i get in amsterdam. I agree its expensive but fuck it, im on holiday and i bring enough money with me to have a good time. Ive been to ibiza were its €50 into a club and €7 for a bottle of water so based on that ive no problem paying €14 for a gram of shoreline.

[kingbee]

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[Babbalonian]

Hi bundy,

That's fair enough, I understand about being on holiday, etc, but comparing cannabis prices in the Dam to club entrance and drinks prices in Ibiza is not really relevant. I know what you mean though, that there are more expensive 'activities' to spend your money on, but let's just remember that it's a plant we're talking about, and that coffeeshops in the Dam are charging a lot more than what is reasonable.

Cannabis shouldn't be about ripping people off, and when greed and profiteering come into it, it always gets my goat.

Coffeeshop owners know that no-one else can get a new licence to open another coffeeshop, so are exploiting their position in the market, rather than giving people a fair deal.

Bundy: Similar to my situation what you're saying. A friend grows 2-3 plants of the same strain a grow so the variety in Amsterdam is a big draw for me.

Agreed on the relative value for money in relation to other activities.. You don't have to go to Ibiza to get ripped off on a night out! A club, 3-4 rounds of drinks, a taxi & some dog food (kebab) in Portsmouth and you won't get much change from £100!



Kingbee: A real interesting read there Sir. I'v only been smoking for 6 years so the price comparison to 1999 is pretty shocking (and 2014 was my first visit to Dam). Never really noticed the French/Italian contingent and for sure didn't think their laws/situation would be more prohibitionist than the UK!

Katsu gave me a top 2 smoke (Mango Haze) out of 17 strains I tried & I think the 20 Euro bag made 2 decent joints. Had no problem with that value for money but then again my first time trying Super Silver Haze from there was a huge disappointment and like you say not worth the price compared with my homegrown NL. Quality trumps price for me and as you say that's related to decent wages etc.

Not sure where you live but you should open your own coffeeshop!! We'd all be there at 10e a g!

So what's the solution to the price situation? As you say, the tourism aspect means the major coffeeshops can almost charge what they like (to a degree)

[bundy1983]

Hi bundy,

That's fair enough, I understand about being on holiday, etc, but comparing cannabis prices in the Dam to club entrance and drinks prices in Ibiza is not really relevant. I know what you mean though, that there are more expensive 'activities' to spend your money on, but let's just remember that it's a plant we're talking about, and that coffeeshops in the Dam are charging a lot more than what is reasonable.

Cannabis shouldn't be about ripping people off, and when greed and profiteering come into it, it always gets my goat.

Coffeeshop owners know that no-one else can get a new licence to open another coffeeshop, so are exploiting their position in the market, rather than giving people a fair deal.

Bundy: Similar to my situation what you're saying. A friend grows 2-3 plants of the same strain a grow so the variety in Amsterdam is a big draw for me.

Agreed on the relative value for money in relation to other activities.. You don't have to go to Ibiza to get ripped off on a night out! A club, 3-4 rounds of drinks, a taxi & some dog food (kebab) in Portsmouth and you won't get much change from £100!



Kingbee: A real interesting read there Sir. I'v only been smoking for 6 years so the price comparison to 1999 is pretty shocking (and 2014 was my first visit to Dam). Never really noticed the French/Italian contingent and for sure didn't think their laws/situation would be more prohibitionist than the UK!

Katsu gave me a top 2 smoke (Mango Haze) out of 17 strains I tried & I think the 20 Euro bag made 2 decent joints. Had no problem with that value for money but then again my first time trying Super Silver Haze from there was a huge disappointment and like you say not worth the price compared with my homegrown NL. Quality trumps price for me and as you say that's related to decent wages etc.

Not sure where you live but you should open your own coffeeshop!! We'd all be there at 10e a g!

So what's the solution to the price situation? As you say, the tourism aspect means the major coffeeshops can almost charge what they like (to a degree)

As ive said before amsterdam is an expensive city but so is all the big tourist cities like london and paris.

[kingbee]

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