We are a big group with only one thing in common and that’s our interest in Amsterdam coffeeshops. You typed “amsterdam coffee shop” into Google at some point.
As a hairy old hippy with pacifist tendencies, vegetarian lifestyle, opposition to the international arms trade, support for Amnesty, etc, I might think I’m the stereotypical coffeeshop user. This is clearly not the case! We are a very disparate group of people.
As some will have seen, a significant group of, predominantly American, members passionately disagree with me about guns. Should I ban these people that I don’t agree with? It’s my forum so I could. I could try to create a community of like-minded individuals.
I started the forum as an extension of the main site. It was primarily for reviewing coffeeshops. There is plenty of scope for discussing wider issues. We can expand to cannabis in general or aspects of the Netherlands. We can even go as far as debating completely off-topic subjects but the further we stray from coffeeshops, the more the differences between us will be revealed. We will have all extremes and every opinion in between amongst us.
It’s not just politics that could be a taboo subject, it’s attitude to life and to using cannabis. Are you smoking herb for enlightenment or getting stoned to have a laugh for instance?
With diverse opinions flying around it’s inevitable that some of us will lose the plot occasionally and as a bunch of stoners we’re all probably inclined to get a bit paranoid sometimes. In fact, it’s amazing that everyone keeps it together most of the time.
When I get PMs about some conflict or another I could read through pages of posts to see who started the argument, who cast the first insult and so on. I could then judge who was at fault and apply punishments. Whilst it might be fun to play god it would only cause more conflict in the long run.
If I was going to start laying down laws I think I’d start by banning the word “troll”. This seems to be a term of abuse specific to the forum sub-culture that has been brought here by members of other forums. I like to think this forum is different because it was born out of the ACD rather than from me being a member of other forums and fancying being a tyrant in my own little world.
Banning People
Yeah, once you get into banning issues that feature could be abused by somebody down the road. I think we can all agree their are certain people who frequent these forums who define the word "troll." They are not helpful or polite at all. Its one thing to be political and still polite, its whole nother thing to simply be a prick.
A ignore function would be great, but banning could cause issues. I think banning should only take place after multiple warnings, and then a IP should be banned.
I think warnings, deleting posts that are specifically aimed at disrupting, and then finally banning would be the order to go.
Leave the argument clinic to its own, but all other forums should be moderated for content sake.
A ignore function would be great, but banning could cause issues. I think banning should only take place after multiple warnings, and then a IP should be banned.
I think warnings, deleting posts that are specifically aimed at disrupting, and then finally banning would be the order to go.
Leave the argument clinic to its own, but all other forums should be moderated for content sake.
The problem really isn't with debates between members of the community, no matter how heated they may get, we always settle them ourselves.
The problem is simply that this community exists on the internet, and is therefore susceptible to the problems internet communities face, the two most notorious of troublemakers being the Troll and Cracker. In either case, it is my opinion that it's the duty of the forum's administrator to exercise his power of his own domain and take care of such problems. Trolls contribute nothing to the community. In fact, they actively try to disrupt the community, and if unchecked, they can do very well at that.
Sure you could use your powers over the forum to simply banish everyone that doesn't agree with you, but that would be equally harmful to the community. None of us are suggesting that you ban those with different opinions. What it seems a lot of us do want is for those with the ability, to "take out the trash" so to speak. To delete spam advertising, to move threads to their proper forums, and to eliminate trolls.
Forum moderation isn't about tyranny, it's about being a responsible leader and policing the community for the wellbeing of it's members. It's easy to delete spam, because it's so easy to recognize, but you have to take notice of when someone is abusing the rights you give them to interact with your webspace by creating hate threads and sparking flames.
The problem is simply that this community exists on the internet, and is therefore susceptible to the problems internet communities face, the two most notorious of troublemakers being the Troll and Cracker. In either case, it is my opinion that it's the duty of the forum's administrator to exercise his power of his own domain and take care of such problems. Trolls contribute nothing to the community. In fact, they actively try to disrupt the community, and if unchecked, they can do very well at that.
Sure you could use your powers over the forum to simply banish everyone that doesn't agree with you, but that would be equally harmful to the community. None of us are suggesting that you ban those with different opinions. What it seems a lot of us do want is for those with the ability, to "take out the trash" so to speak. To delete spam advertising, to move threads to their proper forums, and to eliminate trolls.
Forum moderation isn't about tyranny, it's about being a responsible leader and policing the community for the wellbeing of it's members. It's easy to delete spam, because it's so easy to recognize, but you have to take notice of when someone is abusing the rights you give them to interact with your webspace by creating hate threads and sparking flames.
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Bravo good man bravo!Forum moderation isn't about tyranny, it's about being a responsible leader and policing the community for the wellbeing of it's members. It's easy to delete spam, because it's so easy to recognize, but you have to take notice of when someone is abusing the rights you give them to interact with your webspace by creating hate threads and sparking flames.
'enjoy the pain while it lasts' - Dj TRON
I am one of those people who sent you a pm compaining about a cetain some one.
I did not ask that he be banned, just that he not be allowed to posts pics of me, or any one else with out permission, and maybe be required to stop his attacks on certain people, me being at the top of his list.
I have been staying away from the Argument Clinic, but when some one sends me an e-mail telling me he is posting my pic I had to check.
Even after not posting here for almost two weeks he continues to make comments about me, along w/ his other self, philoshit.
Am I supposed to just ignore this until he finds pics of my grandkids or daughter and starts posting them??
This was my first forum, and I really enjoyed it until tk and all his other personas came he and started posting their crap.
You talk about this being a site to discuss Amsterdam and weed. When was the last time he did that?
All of his posts are just attempts to provoke people and cause dissention on the forum
This helps how???
Peace; twitch
I did not ask that he be banned, just that he not be allowed to posts pics of me, or any one else with out permission, and maybe be required to stop his attacks on certain people, me being at the top of his list.
I have been staying away from the Argument Clinic, but when some one sends me an e-mail telling me he is posting my pic I had to check.
Even after not posting here for almost two weeks he continues to make comments about me, along w/ his other self, philoshit.
Am I supposed to just ignore this until he finds pics of my grandkids or daughter and starts posting them??
This was my first forum, and I really enjoyed it until tk and all his other personas came he and started posting their crap.
You talk about this being a site to discuss Amsterdam and weed. When was the last time he did that?
All of his posts are just attempts to provoke people and cause dissention on the forum
This helps how???
Peace; twitch
Old School and Proud of It.
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SoenderbronX_DK
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Sun 30th Apr 2006 11:22 pm
- Location: So close, yet so far (Southern Denmark)
I think the purpose of a post, especially when coming from a controversial member of the forum, is a very good indicator of what should be done about it. Is it posted for the sake of argument, entertainment, information or other more or less benign purposes, fine, why should anyone wish to interfere, unless their motives are less than honourable? Even if a post is quite meaningless or exposes the poster as a bloody ignorant infantile moron why should we wish to interfere, unless these posts where made in a place were it is of serious disruption to a main purpose of the forum?
BUT, when a post has absolutely no other purpose then attacking a person personally, when a poster goes thru a lot of trouble and includes pics in his post solely to hurt some one and start all kinds of shit, what possible motivation should we have NOT to interfere?
I have absolutely no problem with people wasting their time in pointless bickering, it’s their time to waste and as pointed out by a lot of people it is entirely possible avoiding these fucktarts all together if one so wishes, I just do not see the point that ACD should host them, give them the means to keep doing this shit in order to avoid censorship, tyranny and other bad things as being very valid taking what I’ve just said into account…
SBX_DK
BUT, when a post has absolutely no other purpose then attacking a person personally, when a poster goes thru a lot of trouble and includes pics in his post solely to hurt some one and start all kinds of shit, what possible motivation should we have NOT to interfere?
I have absolutely no problem with people wasting their time in pointless bickering, it’s their time to waste and as pointed out by a lot of people it is entirely possible avoiding these fucktarts all together if one so wishes, I just do not see the point that ACD should host them, give them the means to keep doing this shit in order to avoid censorship, tyranny and other bad things as being very valid taking what I’ve just said into account…
SBX_DK
Who is John Galt?
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SoenderbronX_DK
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Sun 30th Apr 2006 11:22 pm
- Location: So close, yet so far (Southern Denmark)
Lem, you bring the purpose of this forum up as a point, do you personally feel that allowing this sort of behaviour to continue is in someway furthering this purpose? I mean no disrespect; I hope you know that, I just have a really hard time seeing how it should? I recognise that a lot of the forum supports this purpose, and furthers it, solely in indirect terms (as you pointed out, not all areas are even marginally related to CS culture) but I utterly fail to see how this does (not the argument clinic, specific, personal attacks)…
As others have said, and as I have previously told you, I fully respect any decision you might make, or indeed will stand by, I just think that this decision is quite influential to a lot of regulars enjoyment and attendance of this forum, and I find it really sad that posts that serve absolutely no rational purpose should be valued above members the vast majority of the forum has had nothing but positive experiences with, as I see it…
SBX_DK
As others have said, and as I have previously told you, I fully respect any decision you might make, or indeed will stand by, I just think that this decision is quite influential to a lot of regulars enjoyment and attendance of this forum, and I find it really sad that posts that serve absolutely no rational purpose should be valued above members the vast majority of the forum has had nothing but positive experiences with, as I see it…
SBX_DK
Who is John Galt?
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The Philostein
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Tue 27th Feb 2007 07:34 pm
- Location: Vienna
You have only been abscent for 4 DAYS Twitch.Twitch wrote:Even after not posting here for almost two weeks he continues to make comments about me, along w/ his other self, philoshit
Obviously another blatant exaggeration used as a tool to generate sympathy from fellow forum members. Shameless, ignorant and pathetic.
and look at this clanger:
SoenderbronX_DK wrote: when a post has absolutely no other purpose then attacking a person personally, when a poster goes thru a lot of trouble and includes pics in his post solely to hurt some one and start all kinds of shit, what possible motivation should we have NOT to interfere?
From moral highground to blatant hypocrisy in one swift step.SoenderbronX_DK wrote:ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!! I nearly pissed myself there
You couldn't script it.
And for the record, Milehigh, your contribution to this forum is absolutely pathetic and I really have no idea why you bother posting atall. You are without a doubt the biggest troll here, but because you APPEAR to be standing up for whats right it goes unnoticed. However, i have read your posts, you sanctimonious little cretin and i'm watching you VERY closely.
And Mazdog, you are a pointless Bill and Ted type of parasite who wants all the toys in your pram. You're not worthy of a response....only laughter at your pathetic status.[/quote]
Love is everywhere!
to all who have responded before me with one exception well said folks
Lemming i joined this forum to gain more knowledge about Amsterdam and coffeeshop culture in general and although i have seen some posts that i think were only made to antagonise or annoy as they weren't aimed at me i never paid them much attention.
I am a member of another forum on a betting site and they have The boss (in this case you) and some trusted moderators who help the main man regulate the site but this is also open to abuse as if one of the mods take a dislike to a member then they can be predudicial in moderating that members posts but they get round this by appealing their case to the boss man who's decision is final. the reason the other site has an appeals process in that if you stray from their rules and are abusive or derogatory (in a nasty way) then you are awarded penalty points and if you amount 10 points you are banned.
Just a insight for all into how others run their forums and regulate their members.
Keep up the good work Lemming
Burners
Smoke 'em if you got 'em
Lemming i joined this forum to gain more knowledge about Amsterdam and coffeeshop culture in general and although i have seen some posts that i think were only made to antagonise or annoy as they weren't aimed at me i never paid them much attention.
I am a member of another forum on a betting site and they have The boss (in this case you) and some trusted moderators who help the main man regulate the site but this is also open to abuse as if one of the mods take a dislike to a member then they can be predudicial in moderating that members posts but they get round this by appealing their case to the boss man who's decision is final. the reason the other site has an appeals process in that if you stray from their rules and are abusive or derogatory (in a nasty way) then you are awarded penalty points and if you amount 10 points you are banned.
Just a insight for all into how others run their forums and regulate their members.
Keep up the good work Lemming
Burners
Smoke 'em if you got 'em
Last edited by burners on Tue 27th Mar 2007 04:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Smoke 'em if you got 'em
If you look carefully at Philo's post, you can see that the post is not relevant to the topic being discussed past the opposing what another poster wrote. He tries three separate times throughout the post to instigate an argument with another poster using baseless, generic insults. It's clear that all he's trying to do is get people riled up. And since he was left to do this for so long, he's succeeded with some of the members, and caused a lot of damage to the community. These kind of posts are simply vandalism.
It perfectly fits the definition of a troll.
It perfectly fits the definition of a troll.
Anyone who comes to the forum simply to troll, doesn't deserve the right to be here. You have the power to get rid of trolls, and not only would your average forum-goer be understanding of your action, but they would encourage it.someone who posts derogatory or otherwise inflammatory messages about sensitive topics in an established online community such as an online discussion forum to bait users into responding
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Addressing a few of these points:
As I’ve said several times before (and explained in detail why), an ignore feature is not an option. You’ll just have to use the ignore feature in your brain.
We have moderators.
Banning IPs doesn’t work. I’ve explained why that is on here somewhere before too.
I think these posts reveal the nature of the problem. If I banned people for using *that word* then several people would be banned for the posts above. If I banned people that others have accused of being “trolls” then many constructive contributors would no longer be here. If you actually read through the posts and see who has resorted to insults first or who has used the most blatant insults you might be surprised.
Consider this: By far the majority of posters only add a few coffeeshop reviews and disappear again. If that were all that this forum was for then there would be no community and no regulars.
I think what I’m saying here is “be careful what you wish for”.
I’ve tried to avoid naming names or discussing particular conflicts but as several people including Twitch have mentioned his ongoing battle with Tony Kan and Philostein, let’s try to deal with this once and for all.
I would like to suggest a truce that works as follows: both sides agree to never mention each other again, Twitch is banned from the Clinic and Tony Kan and Philostein are banned from the rest of the forum. Once Twitch agrees to this and I have informed Tony Kan and Philostein of the conditions there will be no second chances. If Twitch attempts to goad his nemeses then the truce is off. If Tony Kan or Philostein break their conditions then they are banned.
I hope this seems fair to everyone.
Now, can I please get back to answering emails and updating the main site?
As I’ve said several times before (and explained in detail why), an ignore feature is not an option. You’ll just have to use the ignore feature in your brain.
We have moderators.
Banning IPs doesn’t work. I’ve explained why that is on here somewhere before too.
I think these posts reveal the nature of the problem. If I banned people for using *that word* then several people would be banned for the posts above. If I banned people that others have accused of being “trolls” then many constructive contributors would no longer be here. If you actually read through the posts and see who has resorted to insults first or who has used the most blatant insults you might be surprised.
Consider this: By far the majority of posters only add a few coffeeshop reviews and disappear again. If that were all that this forum was for then there would be no community and no regulars.
I think what I’m saying here is “be careful what you wish for”.
I’ve tried to avoid naming names or discussing particular conflicts but as several people including Twitch have mentioned his ongoing battle with Tony Kan and Philostein, let’s try to deal with this once and for all.
I would like to suggest a truce that works as follows: both sides agree to never mention each other again, Twitch is banned from the Clinic and Tony Kan and Philostein are banned from the rest of the forum. Once Twitch agrees to this and I have informed Tony Kan and Philostein of the conditions there will be no second chances. If Twitch attempts to goad his nemeses then the truce is off. If Tony Kan or Philostein break their conditions then they are banned.
I hope this seems fair to everyone.
Now, can I please get back to answering emails and updating the main site?
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The Philostein
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Tue 27th Feb 2007 07:34 pm
- Location: Vienna
There is no way I would accept being banned from the main site after having done nothing accept defend myself from the self righteous trolls who have tried (and failed) to attack me since day 1. I have been accused of being Tony Kan. This is absolute balderdash.
I haven't even scratched the surface of the some of the comments I have had to put up with regarding the paranoia surrunding my identity. Its actually embarrassing. In fairness, some of the people I have had comments from are members with no credibility or stature, ie. MTV kids CourtJester, Mazdog, Gonzo, etc, but its still not the sort of thing one should have to endure when joining a forum.
And 711, I have no idea who you are but the spin you tried to put on my comments was a disgrace, trying to twist the comments so that the administrator would listen to you is an act of desperation wallowing in self pity and beyond the pale. Go back and live in your silly little fairytale world where everyone agrees with eachother. Fool.
I haven't even scratched the surface of the some of the comments I have had to put up with regarding the paranoia surrunding my identity. Its actually embarrassing. In fairness, some of the people I have had comments from are members with no credibility or stature, ie. MTV kids CourtJester, Mazdog, Gonzo, etc, but its still not the sort of thing one should have to endure when joining a forum.
And 711, I have no idea who you are but the spin you tried to put on my comments was a disgrace, trying to twist the comments so that the administrator would listen to you is an act of desperation wallowing in self pity and beyond the pale. Go back and live in your silly little fairytale world where everyone agrees with eachother. Fool.
Love is everywhere!