Drug Comparison Chart

[Lemming]

Stumbled across this chart on Wiki.
Dependence scale might be a bit subjective.
Bottom scale is ratio and log I think.
So for cannabis the active dose is 0.001 of the lethal dose.
For alcohol you need 0.1 of a lethal dose to get a hit and heroin a little more.

Interesting categories. In my mind, narcotics, depressants and anaesthetics are variations on the same theme but I like the idea that cannabis has a category all of its own.

[RoMoney]

Very interesting share Lemming. I knew tobacco smoking was bad for the lungs but nicotine seems quite nefarious based on the chart!

[CopenhagenCouple]

Interesting, but tbh probably BS. AFAIK, if any of the major cannabinoids has a LD50, it is so high that you will probably die from trying to eat the amounts of pure fully activated cannabis it will take to get there, choke trying to inhaled pure vaporized oil for hours or something like that before you are close to it... Translating that into an active dose being anything above 0.00001 just seems like bad math... For alcohol, a 0.1 active dose means that I would be close to pushing up daisies at around 5 or 6 beers, as I often clearly feel half a (proper) beer, which would mean that I have been damn lucky on several occasions we've seen each other.

[Lemming]

nicotine seems quite nefarious based on the chart!

I seem to recall hearing once that the quantity of nicotine in a cigarette would be fatal if injected. I haven't checked that though.

Interesting, but tbh probably BS. AFAIK, ...

Struggling a bit with your point there CC.
Are you saying that the gap between cannabis and alcohol should be even bigger?
It's already a logarithmic scale!

Looking again, I was reading it wrong. I saw it as if you need half a beer for a hit then 50 beers would be lethal. There is no explanation to go with it. The relative comparison looks about right though.

To be honest, I see this more as a tool we can use when arguing with sceptics rather than something that well-informed readers here are likely to learn from.

For me, in a recreational context, narcotics, depressants and anaesthetics all push the dial in the wrong direction. They are about hiding from life. Turning the volume down. Cannabis, stimulants and hallucinogens turn the volume up. They make life more intense, at least for me.

[Willjay]

I’m not an expert just a life long observer , I don’t think there’s a lethal dose of marijuana, as long as it’s consumed normally I don’t know what would happen if some one drank a quart of oil or some other dumb waste of weed . I also think nicotine is the most addictive substance on that chart.
But thanks for sharing and keep on toking

[CopenhagenCouple]

@Lemming : not the gap, but the numbers given I have questions about. Unless there's some "alternative math" at play, a Active Dose / lehtal dose ratio of 0.1 would mean that it takes 10x the amount you need to feel it, for it to become lethal. So, if I can feel 0,5 beers, 10x0,5=5 beers should be lethal.

Marijuana isn't exactly something you can dose and because of the complexity of the interaction between different cannabinoids and terpenes it is probably very uncertain giving an exact number. But again, AFAIK thc and the other main cannabinoids either do not have an LD50 (the dose it takes to kill 50 % of people who get it), i. e. they are not toxic even in extreme doses, or it is so high that it is next to impossible to reach and you risk serious harm from the act of trying to do so, before risking serious, long term physical harm from the drugs.

[CopenhagenCouple]

Got bored sitting with a spliff, so did a quick look. Here's a bit if science on the matter: https://www1.health.gov.au/internet/mai ... 2-ch52.htm

The article states that thc has the highest toxicity and suggests that a lethal dose of delta9-THC is about 8,45 kg for a 60 kg adult. Sounds around the numbers I've read / heard before.

So, even if you have ridiculously potent weed at 30 % thc and you could effectively get every last mg of thc in to your blood stream (by some miracle way of consuming with no physical or biological losses under way), you would need a bit more than 28 kgs and you would need to consume it fast enough for it to be present in your blood stream at that concentration. IIRC these numbers do not account for tolerance, so if you have build tolerance the LD50 goes up.

Now, I know there's some very serious potheads on this forum, and that I've been guilty of overindulgence on more than one occasion, but those amounts are too tall an order for the whole gang going at it for a week, so I'll stick to my original thoughts that while an interesting conversation starter, there's probably a bit too much "wiki-science" behind the data for it to be a reliable source of information.
I agree that the overall message of the chart is worth noticing, and worth talking about, but would just wish that no numbers were given as they can quickly lead to people making the wrong conclusions. By this I mean that the chart (or more specifically the data) can be used to make the argument that if you can feel 0.1 of a gram of a cannabis product, 1 gram of that is a lethal dose and consequently something that should be regulated further...

[CopenhagenCouple]

My apologies, now I got the numbers mixed up, the 0.1 ration was for alcohol...

There's quite a bit if debate still on the subject of thc toxicity apparently and I do like to be critical of my sources or at least search out different views on the subject. So in the interest of balanced arguments, here's another link that presents another view : https://www.rehabs.com/pro-talk/fatal-m ... ot-a-myth/

The article seems well argued and site a number of sources to suggest that there is a lethal dose and that it is not true that you need to ingest several kgs of product to get there.

With all the uncertainty, I think you made a fair point Lemming, that the worthwhile discussion is around the overall picture and how people use these drugs, instead of the actual data.

Still think the 0.1 number for alcohol is a bit iffy

[Lemming]

Yeah, I agree, both scales are a bit suspect.
I think the relative positions of the substances are about right though.

I'd like to see sugar placed on the chart.

I enjoyed the linked article. It's almost sarcastic. As the author says, even water will kill you if you drink too much too fast.

I think cannabis overdose should be recommended as a suicide method to anyone contemplating the idea.