Well Travel....u need to study more
We entered WWII....on DEC 7....the day the japs bombed Pearl Harbor
THE JAPS.....are who we declared...war on...even though
the germans had been taking out the supply ships...we had been sending...
that was our involvment....even though American property was been fired upon.....
The Day after....We declared war on JAPAN....Italy and Germany
declared war on us...
It had nothing to do with the slaughter of inocent people....we had pleanty of chances....and we ignored....until it was too late.......
we knew people were being killed for nothing...and we did nothing
It is VeryPro American to march to your own drum
Moderators: Balou, Twichaldinho
what branch did you serve....U.S Navy,Seal Team #1
what have you given up...served 12 years,wounded in first gulf war,honorable discharge.I would also do it again.
Radical Saudis bombed the world trade towers, we are now in Iraq ONLY for the oil and to make contractors rich.
We used Pearl Harbor as the catalyst for world war 2 for two reasons,to aid our ally Great Britain and to also pull this country out of the severe depression we were in at the time.
The United States DOES do some underhanded and illegal activities,but also is still a great country and its citizens are free to vote and express themselves.If you don't like the current administration,do your duty and VOTE. On average only 50% of the people who complain about the state of this country actually use the right to vote...very sad!
what have you given up...served 12 years,wounded in first gulf war,honorable discharge.I would also do it again.
Radical Saudis bombed the world trade towers, we are now in Iraq ONLY for the oil and to make contractors rich.
We used Pearl Harbor as the catalyst for world war 2 for two reasons,to aid our ally Great Britain and to also pull this country out of the severe depression we were in at the time.
The United States DOES do some underhanded and illegal activities,but also is still a great country and its citizens are free to vote and express themselves.If you don't like the current administration,do your duty and VOTE. On average only 50% of the people who complain about the state of this country actually use the right to vote...very sad!
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travelling high
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- Location: All across America!!
I am not going to keep on with this pissing match with you..I am going to leave it at I dont like what you stand for and never will..If you dont like it here go somewhere else..Otherwise do something to help us rebuild what we have lost and be happy with your involvement..It starts by getting the right people in place in Washington and move on from there..And what ever it took for us to enter WW2..We did and made a whole continent safer for it..
When Things Are Down Get High!!
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travelling high
- Posts: 678
- Joined: Mon 10th Apr 2006 02:02 am
- Location: All across America!!
its not a pissing match....But you call me out an un american....when I ask you questions you cant rationaly answer you move on to
WWII...which you again have your facts screwed up....
You have no idea ...about what I stand for...you make judgements
instead of engageing in peaceful conversation.....
but wait you are so much smarter...more mature then have a conversation about a difference of opion...I bow to your supreme
stupidty...and closed mindedness...
Let me take a guess Travel WASP...republican....and its hard to pin poin an age....Not knowing the reason WWII started for us....make me know your in your early twentys.....
AND I'M DOING MY PART ....BY SPEAKING OUT....AND SAYING WHAT PEOPLE ARE THINKING...JUST AFRAIDE TO VOICE THEIR OPIONS....
BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU
Who have no idea that there is a whole nother world out there....that you need to learn about.....So that when presented with ideas that are forgien
to them...they are capable of uttering more then...
"IF YOU DONT LIKE IT LEAVE"
....alonge the same vains
"I know you are...but what am I"
Thank you bad... for your service...
I also bleed RW&B...which really alows me the freedom to speak openly
WWII...which you again have your facts screwed up....
You have no idea ...about what I stand for...you make judgements
instead of engageing in peaceful conversation.....
but wait you are so much smarter...more mature then have a conversation about a difference of opion...I bow to your supreme
stupidty...and closed mindedness...
Let me take a guess Travel WASP...republican....and its hard to pin poin an age....Not knowing the reason WWII started for us....make me know your in your early twentys.....
AND I'M DOING MY PART ....BY SPEAKING OUT....AND SAYING WHAT PEOPLE ARE THINKING...JUST AFRAIDE TO VOICE THEIR OPIONS....
BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU
Who have no idea that there is a whole nother world out there....that you need to learn about.....So that when presented with ideas that are forgien
to them...they are capable of uttering more then...
"IF YOU DONT LIKE IT LEAVE"
....alonge the same vains
"I know you are...but what am I"
Thank you bad... for your service...
I also bleed RW&B...which really alows me the freedom to speak openly
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travelling high
- Posts: 678
- Joined: Mon 10th Apr 2006 02:02 am
- Location: All across America!!
I am very much a Democrat..Let me take a guess Travel WASP...republican
By what you say it is apparent what you stand for..You have no idea ...about what I stand for
I am the farthest thing from being stupid or closed minded..but wait you are so much smarter...more mature then have a conversation about a difference of opinion...I bow to your supreme
stupidity...and closed mindedness...
I know exactly what is out there in the world..It is people like you who are narrow minded..It is easier for people like you to blame someone else then help us fix the problems here..BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU
Who have no idea that there is a whole nother world out there....that you need to learn about.....So that when presented with ideas that are forgien
to them...they are capable of uttering more then...
And as i said before I respect your right to say what you feel that is one of our greatest freedoms here and I would never take that away from any American citizen..But when it is used in vain it is counter productive.And on that note dont I have the right to say what I feel?And no I am not in my 20's..But I dont feel my age matters much on this issue..And what didnt I answer you on when I moved on to ww2?which really alows me the freedom to speak openly
When Things Are Down Get High!!
The US will always be the age old arguement between the conspirates and the nationalists. That will never change and debating the subject wont help either. The nationalists believe that nothing could possibly be corrupt in their government (even though it's proven that power corrupts) and the conspirates believe everything is wrong with it and neither side is willing to accept that they might be wrong. It's schoolyard stuff. Everybody digging in their heels, convinced they are right, but nobody can prove a damn thing, so as far as I'm concerned, 'til there's hard evidence it isn't corrupt or hard evidence it is, then I don't think anybody has a place to comment without making concession for them being wrong.
What I see happening in my own country and I'm sorry if I offend here but I blame the states and their big brother attitude, one thing you can't deny is that the US is very good at taking credit for the freedom we had in the first place. To quote Howard Marks when discussing the republican government "Enjoy yourself, but enjoy yourself OUR way" but you cannot enforce that on any other country simply because it is not our god given right to do so. I believe Saddam was a bad man and I'm glad he's gone, but I'm going to try put things into perspective here as best I can....
My granny is German, she lived in Germany during WWII and the thing that people forget when discussing a tyrant, is that the tyrant MUST have support to reach a point where they have absolute power, what you absolutely must remember is that he had support, but do you genuinly believe it's because all germans hated the jews and wanted to conquer the world? No. It's because Hitler made life good for them, my granny always said that Germany and the German people were prosperous during his reign. Now she isn't an anti-semite, she's a caring lady who loves people for what they are, regardless of religion, colour, creed etc... so, on the otherside, why is the fighting in Iraq still going on, how many years down the line? Simply because Saddam will have made life good for many of his people, now I'm not saying that excuses the attrocities this man has caused, but I don't believe either of our governments really thought that before engaging in combat, or if they did, they didn't think hard enough about that. It was obvious this war would go on for years, at the cost of many, many lives, both ours and theirs and our lives are no less precious than the people of Iraq, we're all just humans, living, breathing beings with family and friends, we get upset, we become happy, we are no different to each other. We're all part of the same energy banging into each other, it's like two tornadoes appearing to be 2 different things when really it's just the wind whipping up in 2 different directions, but the tornadoes are not seperate entitites, they are one - the wind.
I do believe there is alot of good in the US, or I'd like to believe it at least but when you wage an illegal war people are never going to see you in the light you think you should be seen in, travelling high - i really am not trying to step on your toes or offend you here, merely debating the matter from an outsiders point of view, a vast proportion of our country is dead against what we're doing, regardless of what our government thinks, it's the people that matter, the voters, because this war is being waged in OUR name and I never gave my permission for anyone to wage a war in MY name yet I have to deal with the repurcussions, like the recent attack on Glasgow International, only 20 minutes from my home. I hope you take it for what it is and not a personal attack on you or your country I just feel as though you are attacking Blue for the freedom of speech that the modern world places so much weight in, it's un-american of you (for want of a better phrase) to attack her for what she's said and tell her if she doesn't like it she can go elsewhere, simply because you don't like what she has to say or because you deem it to be counter-productive. Personally, any opinion which is voiced is the furthest removed from counter productive it can be because it means that people actually still feel the urge to stand up and say what they think. If we lost that, we'd really be lost, silenced in the dark, worried about saying the wrong thing. That's not what has been fought and died for.
I love a good debate me, providing everybody realises it's a debate, not a chance for insults to be thrown because somebody doesn't like what another person is saying. If someone has strong enough beliefs then they should be able to articulate that without offending anyone, debate it like adults (ie accepting that you MIGHT, just MIGHT be wrong) and if required, agree to disagree before it gets out of hand. It's a hot topic this one and I'd love a chance to get some other opinions, especially from Americans, but only if it's civil and mature, all the while remembering we are ALL entitled to our opinions.
What I see happening in my own country and I'm sorry if I offend here but I blame the states and their big brother attitude, one thing you can't deny is that the US is very good at taking credit for the freedom we had in the first place. To quote Howard Marks when discussing the republican government "Enjoy yourself, but enjoy yourself OUR way" but you cannot enforce that on any other country simply because it is not our god given right to do so. I believe Saddam was a bad man and I'm glad he's gone, but I'm going to try put things into perspective here as best I can....
My granny is German, she lived in Germany during WWII and the thing that people forget when discussing a tyrant, is that the tyrant MUST have support to reach a point where they have absolute power, what you absolutely must remember is that he had support, but do you genuinly believe it's because all germans hated the jews and wanted to conquer the world? No. It's because Hitler made life good for them, my granny always said that Germany and the German people were prosperous during his reign. Now she isn't an anti-semite, she's a caring lady who loves people for what they are, regardless of religion, colour, creed etc... so, on the otherside, why is the fighting in Iraq still going on, how many years down the line? Simply because Saddam will have made life good for many of his people, now I'm not saying that excuses the attrocities this man has caused, but I don't believe either of our governments really thought that before engaging in combat, or if they did, they didn't think hard enough about that. It was obvious this war would go on for years, at the cost of many, many lives, both ours and theirs and our lives are no less precious than the people of Iraq, we're all just humans, living, breathing beings with family and friends, we get upset, we become happy, we are no different to each other. We're all part of the same energy banging into each other, it's like two tornadoes appearing to be 2 different things when really it's just the wind whipping up in 2 different directions, but the tornadoes are not seperate entitites, they are one - the wind.
I do believe there is alot of good in the US, or I'd like to believe it at least but when you wage an illegal war people are never going to see you in the light you think you should be seen in, travelling high - i really am not trying to step on your toes or offend you here, merely debating the matter from an outsiders point of view, a vast proportion of our country is dead against what we're doing, regardless of what our government thinks, it's the people that matter, the voters, because this war is being waged in OUR name and I never gave my permission for anyone to wage a war in MY name yet I have to deal with the repurcussions, like the recent attack on Glasgow International, only 20 minutes from my home. I hope you take it for what it is and not a personal attack on you or your country I just feel as though you are attacking Blue for the freedom of speech that the modern world places so much weight in, it's un-american of you (for want of a better phrase) to attack her for what she's said and tell her if she doesn't like it she can go elsewhere, simply because you don't like what she has to say or because you deem it to be counter-productive. Personally, any opinion which is voiced is the furthest removed from counter productive it can be because it means that people actually still feel the urge to stand up and say what they think. If we lost that, we'd really be lost, silenced in the dark, worried about saying the wrong thing. That's not what has been fought and died for.
I love a good debate me, providing everybody realises it's a debate, not a chance for insults to be thrown because somebody doesn't like what another person is saying. If someone has strong enough beliefs then they should be able to articulate that without offending anyone, debate it like adults (ie accepting that you MIGHT, just MIGHT be wrong) and if required, agree to disagree before it gets out of hand. It's a hot topic this one and I'd love a chance to get some other opinions, especially from Americans, but only if it's civil and mature, all the while remembering we are ALL entitled to our opinions.
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travelling high
- Posts: 678
- Joined: Mon 10th Apr 2006 02:02 am
- Location: All across America!!
I have had family die in may wars for our freedoms here and get very upset at those that use the right to free speech to disparage our country instead of helping to fix our problems.
Calvin Coolidge
Patriotism is easy to understand in America; it means looking out for yourself by looking out for your country.
When Things Are Down Get High!!
That quote is possibly the greatest quote I know and pretty much what I was trying to say above, albeit in a much more condensed fashion. Well placed Badfrog!Badfrog wrote:I try to live by this thought:
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Evelyn Beatrice Hall, writing as S. G. Tallentyre in 1906
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TH, dude... then you don't beleive in free speech, you believe in censored free speech which we all know, is not free! Speech can be used for whatever purpose the user intends. Not just what you think they should be using it for!travelling high wrote:I have had family die in may wars for our freedoms here and get very upset at those that use the right to free speech to disparage our country instead of helping to fix our problems.Calvin Coolidge
Patriotism is easy to understand in America; it means looking out for yourself by looking out for your country.
Last edited by user54321 on Tue 10th Jul 2007 02:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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travelling high
- Posts: 678
- Joined: Mon 10th Apr 2006 02:02 am
- Location: All across America!!
I have said in many posts I accept freedom of speech..It is our greatest freedom here..But when you use your freedom of speech in a non-productive manor for the place you live nothing will ever get better if you continue to be bitter about the Government..I say help fix the problem..TH, dude... then you don't beleive in free speech, you believe in censored free speech which we all know, is not free! Speech can be used for whatever purpose the user intends. Not just what you think they should be using it for!
Hitler was able to gain power thru a german feeling of begrudgement from ww1.And it was easy to brain wash people that want redemption for a loss of National identity.I am in no way saying I approve of the war but I do believe there is more to it than wanting oil{by the way we have always paid for so why wage war for it}.The first war in Iraq had a defined purpose stop the genocide but once again a bush let us down by not completing the job then.the thing that people forget when discussing a tyrant, is that the tyrant MUST have support to reach a point where they have absolute power,
I already said that to blue earlier but it didnt matter I guess..Neldo one thing you defend blue on is what you chastised me for is my freedom of speech..agree to disagree before it gets out of hand.
When Things Are Down Get High!!
I'll address the 1st and 3rd points and just remain indifferent to the 2nd...
1) No voiced opinion is counter-productive. To say it is would be a contradiction in terms when you take the lives fought and died for free speech into consideration.
3) I haven't chastised you for anything dude, I just pointed out that you were doing a bit of chastising yourself - partially going against the free speech thing we're all talking about, that was all.
1) No voiced opinion is counter-productive. To say it is would be a contradiction in terms when you take the lives fought and died for free speech into consideration.
3) I haven't chastised you for anything dude, I just pointed out that you were doing a bit of chastising yourself - partially going against the free speech thing we're all talking about, that was all.
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