It is VeryPro American to march to your own drum

skars · Post by **skars** » Tue 10th Jul 2007 03:10 am

I absolutely despise the war being waged in Iraq and the overall war on terror. It has been mismanaged from the beginning and declaring a war on something like terror is well just like declaring war on drugs, pointless. You cannot really predict or prevent terrorism and especially not by capitulating and infringing on the civil rights of your citizens or the human rights of any individual for the sake of "security". When it comes to nationalism, you can put me on the borders are arbitrary side. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and it's shameful that our "leaders" mislead our country into believing so. It's no secret that there were a group of Neo-Conservatives that have written dozens of essays for a group called the Project for a new American Century and that part of their essays entailed displeasure with the outset of the first gulf war and a desire to invade Iraq for it's resource rich environment and strategic position in the Middle East amongst other reasons like the maniacal dictator we supported during the 80's. So, it wasn't a huge surprise that once they were in power (controlling all 3 branches of our government) the theories introduced in those essays might take hold and get tested.

But, that doesn't mean that any ole conspiracy theory occurred or was even plausible to begin with. If you want to believe that and bring it up in unrelated discussions on the intarweb fine; I mean how many people take a leap of faith towards all kinds of supernatural and fantastic things and think they need to share the word? Just don't be surprised if you have a conversion rate similar to door to door vacuum salesman especially when you use fragments of arguments and an abrassive demeanor.

This topic is quite polarizing as you describe Neldo and I honestly came to a forum about cannabis to hopefully avoid it and to focus on the things we find in common. Sure I am not pleased with the nasty things we have done as a country and I hope that the positive outweigh the negative, but I do find most critics from outside have a short term memory and historical perspective. We aren't the first ones to occupy Mesopotamia.

travelling high · Post by **travelling high** » Tue 10th Jul 2007 03:19 am

Very well put..I agree with alot of what you have said Skars..But I believe alot of people new that the Iraqi's didnt attack us..Most of the men were saudi nationals{our supposed friend in the middle east}The Bush family is in cahoots with each other the son tried to do what the father did but with more stupidity..And as for arming Saddam in the 80's..we played both sides of the fence on that one..Remember the Iran-Contra scandal..And the Contra part is a whole nother can of worms.... Olly North was left to dangle in the wind..We need solutions not critics.We have made alot of bad decisions as a country but I hope some of the ideas were geared for the best of intentions.

user54321 · Post by **user54321** » Tue 10th Jul 2007 03:20 am

I don't think it should be avoided, the discussion I mean. I think if it's articulate and people keep a few simple things in mind, then it can be a great thing to share in other people's experiences of something that is currently affecting alot of us.

Could you clear something up for me though? Who are you referring to when you mention "most critics from outside"?

USbongLord · Post by **USbongLord** » Tue 10th Jul 2007 03:24 am

USbongLord · Post by **USbongLord** » Tue 10th Jul 2007 03:28 am

MORE COWBELL PLEASE

travelling high · Post by **travelling high** » Tue 10th Jul 2007 03:29 am

LOL..FUNNY ASS SKIT THERE

user54321 · Post by **user54321** » Tue 10th Jul 2007 03:36 am

Wish I could see it.

I'm only ever on this forum in my work and imageshack is a banned site ever since we got a worm on one of our PCs recently, we're a national security monitoring centre, you can imagine the panic that caused

Edit: by national security I mean we cover the whole country, not 'national security' in the typical sense of the word, especially seeing as the topic of this thread I thought I'd best clear that one up

skars · Post by **skars** » Tue 10th Jul 2007 03:39 am

I meant most critics from outside the USA as I am one of the critics (sorry TH I think critics and dissent in general are a positive thing) from within.

As for solutions, don't kill people. Why tens of thousands have to die and billions of damage need to occur to "help them" is beyond me. If a "solution" means additional death and suffering, maybe we should slow down and consider an alternative course of action. We jumped to conclusions on Iraq (much to the chagrin of millions of protesters) and now we will reap the decade at least of reprecussion. Which IMO means that those of us not in favor of the war from the beginning are entitled to at least a decade of I told you so. (you know us libs and that sense of entitlement

travelling high · Post by **travelling high** » Tue 10th Jul 2007 03:49 am

(sorry TH I think critics and dissent in general are a positive thing) from within.

It maybe as long as you can also give a bit of help to fix the problem...

If a "solution" means additional death and suffering,

I dont want any deaths period and I hope you dont feel I have said that in any capacity quite the opposite..I hate the Republicans and most of all Bush..But now if we pull out it will be complete civil unrest..As I have said before we need to stop Iranian funded terrorism..And allow the Iraqi's to move forward with their country under a better living situation..But even that said it will still be a rocky road due to the Sunni and Shites always at odds..I hope the one people that come out o.k is the Kurds because they have suffered the most of all...

skars · Post by **skars** » Tue 10th Jul 2007 03:51 am

With 140,000 turks on the border, something makes me think not likely.

user54321 · Post by **user54321** » Tue 10th Jul 2007 04:02 am

skars wrote:I meant most critics from outside the USA as I am one of the critics (sorry TH I think critics and dissent in general are a positive thing) from within. As for solutions, don't kill people. Why tens of thousands have to die and billions of damage need to occur to "help them" is beyond me. If a "solution" means additional death and suffering, maybe we should slow down and consider an alternative course of action. We jumped to conclusions on Iraq (much to the chagrin of millions of protesters) and now we will reap the decade at least of reprecussion. Which IMO means that those of us not in favor of the war from the beginning are entitled to at least a decade of I told you so. (you know us libs and that sense of entitlement

Ah, for a second I thought you were referring to something I had said that was historically incorrect, then I went back to check and noticed I haven't mentioned any of the history between US and Iraq. I was about to say my memory hasn't failed me yet (although my girl would have you beleive otherwise

) but it seems it has...

USbongLord · Post by **USbongLord** » Tue 10th Jul 2007 12:11 pm

D-Day (Bruce McGill): War's over, man. Wormer dropped the big one.
Bluto: Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Otter (Tim Matheson): [whispering] Germans?
Boon (Peter Riegert): Forget it, he's rolling.
Bluto: And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough... [thinks hard] the tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go! [runs out, alone; then returns] What the fuck happened to the Delta I used to know? Where's the spirit? Where's the guts, huh? "Ooh, we're afraid to go with you Bluto, we might get in trouble." Well just kiss my ass from now on! Not me! I'm not gonna take this. Wormer, he's a dead man! Marmalard, dead! Niedermeyer -
Otter: Dead! Bluto's right. Psychotic, but absolutely right. We gotta take these bastards. Now we could do it with conventional weapons that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part.
Bluto: We're just the guys to do it.
D-Day: Let's do it.
Bluto: LET'S DO IT!!

READ ALONG HERE...HEHEHEHE AMERICA AT ITS BEST...LOL HOW WE GET THINGS DONE..LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K92OVFeGgIE

geoffk · Post by **geoffk** » Wed 11th Jul 2007 03:09 pm

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/bu ... y_just_not

bluelaru · Post by **bluelaru** » Wed 11th Jul 2007 03:30 pm

Well TRAVEL....are you still willing to die for this moran

....lets line up our children ....and send them off to pay for

OIL.....in BLOOD

travelling high · Post by **travelling high** » Wed 11th Jul 2007 06:54 pm

I never said I was willing to die for Bush and his policies I am willing to die for what is right...By the way I am very much Democrat as I have stated before.....lets line up our children ....and send them off to pay for
OIL.....in BLOOD..You make it seem like this is what I have said and in no way have I ever made such comments...And I thought we were not to direct comments in specific name..You told me LEMMING said..Didnt you