TD those points are completely right, Islam was the first religion to state women can own estates that cannot be taken them off them when they marry and that the husband cant touch, the only restriction is to pay 10% of disposible income to Islamic charities, but that is required of all Muslims male or female.
I dont think Islam as a whole justifys religion, however the Shi'ite tradition with its emphasis on matrydom i.e the comeration that takes place every year to mark when one of their leaders was killed, which is seen as matrydom. Means that it allowed itself to be corrupted, however this emphaisis when taken in the context of the time can be seen to be justified, protecting homeland etc from invading Christian forces and other Barbarian forces at the time. This protection was needed, the best way to do this is to offer a reward, the reward of eternal life appeals the the basic human want to be immortal so was an extremely powerful bargining tool. Thats a secularist point of view obviously.
Islam is not a totally peaceful religion, afterall a relgion does not spread from the middle east to northern france without violence. But it is true that all religions are violent and not totaly peaceful, it is not an exculivsly Islamic thing. Christianity has been used to justify evil, i.e the three Gospel accounts of Matthew, Luke and Mark's portrayal of the ' evil jew ' which forced Jesus's crucifition, the KKK uses Christianity to justify its evil and of course the crusuades.
All religion promotes evil, with the possible exception of Buddhisim, in some way. If a religious text does get corrupted to justify evil that is a human error not a religious one.
Who's Responsible For 9/11?
Moderator: Balou
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Sir Niall of Essex-sire
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redeyed
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wow some pretty incredible theories and observations here.Unfortunately Im a big disbeliever in human spirit to do the right thing on a nation affecting level,i.e the people at the top make decisions based on the need of the few rather than the many time and again.
I dont believe in any conspiracy involving masons or any other type of "secret society".Thats just a step too far for me.However I do believe that the U.S as well as Britain know fine rightly that war and its aftermath is usually profitable for the winners.I dont believe for one second that there was ever any information to say that Saddam actually had viable WMDs that were a threat to either the U.S and /or europe.My view is that this "tale" gave those involved enough leeway with the world community to do what they wanted to do (wage war).Going back to the point I made that war is profitable for the victors, I saw a programme last year about how the "rebuilding" of Iraq was carried out by mostly large American and British private companies this worries me.Its like hey were going to bomb you then we will rebuild your country while occupying it.It is totally unethical.Like braking someones nose because you know they will pay you to fix it for them.
As for 9/11?Well I dont think Bush and or Blair would have arranged such a thing.However there are elements of both governments (shady elements) that would have liked nothing better than an attack on american or british soil to maintain or increase their budget for the "war" on terrorism.I come from a place where government agencies have been alleged (all but proven as is the norm for these things) to have colluded with terrorists by giving them information to kill other terrorists whos religion was not to their liking.So these covert groups in any western government (mi5 CIA etc) are never whiter than white when the truth is told.I think people miss the point here though.Like mentioned in the first few posts its a shame that the memory of the people who died on 9/11 is lessened or tarnished by talking of conspiracy theories.I also feel that Bush and Blairs actions have created maybe generations of people who have every reason to hate and dispise the western way of life and played straight into the hands of nutty extremists.
Dangerous times ahead as both the countries involved most have a quite large percent of middle eastern or muslims in their population.
Now dont get me wrong I actually think the people preaching non violence on the muslim side are doing a great job of holding back extremism.Also I hate the idea of a racial witchunt as it is something I have seen before and it does not work.It just serves to galvanise those intent on violence and their followers.Long and short of it is though that as a whole these middle eastern "terrorist" groups have shown far more restraint than the U.S or Britain ever did.People may say how so pointing to the 9/11 attacks but I say subtract the number of people killed in that atrocity from the total number of Iraqis killed in during and after the invasion and a better idea of the full picture can be had.
I dont believe in any conspiracy involving masons or any other type of "secret society".Thats just a step too far for me.However I do believe that the U.S as well as Britain know fine rightly that war and its aftermath is usually profitable for the winners.I dont believe for one second that there was ever any information to say that Saddam actually had viable WMDs that were a threat to either the U.S and /or europe.My view is that this "tale" gave those involved enough leeway with the world community to do what they wanted to do (wage war).Going back to the point I made that war is profitable for the victors, I saw a programme last year about how the "rebuilding" of Iraq was carried out by mostly large American and British private companies this worries me.Its like hey were going to bomb you then we will rebuild your country while occupying it.It is totally unethical.Like braking someones nose because you know they will pay you to fix it for them.
As for 9/11?Well I dont think Bush and or Blair would have arranged such a thing.However there are elements of both governments (shady elements) that would have liked nothing better than an attack on american or british soil to maintain or increase their budget for the "war" on terrorism.I come from a place where government agencies have been alleged (all but proven as is the norm for these things) to have colluded with terrorists by giving them information to kill other terrorists whos religion was not to their liking.So these covert groups in any western government (mi5 CIA etc) are never whiter than white when the truth is told.I think people miss the point here though.Like mentioned in the first few posts its a shame that the memory of the people who died on 9/11 is lessened or tarnished by talking of conspiracy theories.I also feel that Bush and Blairs actions have created maybe generations of people who have every reason to hate and dispise the western way of life and played straight into the hands of nutty extremists.
Dangerous times ahead as both the countries involved most have a quite large percent of middle eastern or muslims in their population.
Now dont get me wrong I actually think the people preaching non violence on the muslim side are doing a great job of holding back extremism.Also I hate the idea of a racial witchunt as it is something I have seen before and it does not work.It just serves to galvanise those intent on violence and their followers.Long and short of it is though that as a whole these middle eastern "terrorist" groups have shown far more restraint than the U.S or Britain ever did.People may say how so pointing to the 9/11 attacks but I say subtract the number of people killed in that atrocity from the total number of Iraqis killed in during and after the invasion and a better idea of the full picture can be had.
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Scientificz
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Trichome_Dense wrote:Weak! So weak Mr Scientificz - you're flawed logic will be exposed in this post to be just that - WEAK! So weak in fact - that it may be considered broken...
Chump? thats a lil derogatory aint it Mr Scientificz? Get a lil less emotionally involved - it's not like he was trying to offend you directly - or even trying to offend! Just stating his opinion - take on things...Scientificz wrote:You know fuck all about me, chump.
Hatred? Are you blind mate - I don't wanna offend you Mr Scientificz - but that aint the truth - these so-called Taliban have a lot of respect amongst the locals - and were actually placed into power locally by the tribes which inhabit the regions - as a way to govern their local activities and to offer protection against other tribal attack - and to regulate caravanning trade routes... What you read about the Taliban on TV and media is all shit LMFAO - I thought you didn't buy all the media hype?Scientificz wrote:I know why the Taliban is fighting the US, and hatred is a pretty massive part of it.just the tabloids? Mate what you see on TV is propaganda - and - bullshit!!!Scientificz wrote: I don't read tabloids for a start
... and why not? We've all heard first hand accounts of US Soldiers in Iraq/Iran/Afghanistan telling us of how they were told to befriend the locals and then - not a fortnight later - after gaining the trust of the locals - were told to kill those whom they had sworn to protect??????????? Infuriating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Scientificz wrote:It's strange how the Americans and brits have managed to train an army and police force in Afghanistan, do you think these are all 'freedom fighters' in waiting? Just looking out for the right time to turn the weapons against the US?
They don't hate the so-called "oppressive misogynistic regime" and No! It hasn't slaughtered their country - that is the tribal life they are accustomed to.Scientificz wrote:What I mean by this (and I feel I must explain myself, because you appear to have a very black and white take on this) is that most Afghans don't hate the US, they hate the oppressive misogynistic regime that has slaughtered their country. And YES I do know that the Taliban have been trying to infiltrate these services.
It is foreign interest (Ie: USA and UK) which promises the earth and all in it to a country which is mainly full of local tribal communities, and delivers NADA - hear me? Nothing Mr Scientificz - eat on that my friend... Name me one thing which the USA or the UK has done for these countries which the people agree to be a good thing - and you cant!!! Just cant!!! It would be a lot more accurate to state that the "Afghan People" do not hate anyone - just fear for their own survival when all it seems to their humble and tired eyes is that the foreign invaders have come to kill - loot - plunder - rape - kill - loot - plunder - rape - kill - loot - plunder - rape... recurring... I have spent time in Arab countries - and you are very very very wrong... the status quo is very different from what you believe Scientificz! As for you apparently knowing that the Taliban is trying to infiltrate certain services?!?!?!?! How would you know this??? You know a Taliban member personally? Or is this something you "think" is happening?
Dont try and be a know it all - Your opinion is noted and disreagarded by me... I hold mine to be a lot less judgemental and definitely less biased! Factually - you claim you are not influenced by Tabloids - but you talk tabloid talk - so where is the evidence of your "higher understanding" if you can relate and narrate your opinions rationally by giving us factual information - an not factual information which has been collated via questionable sources (US / UK Govt information and collated stats) you understand? Which begs the question - where do i get accurate factual info regarding this? Answer... Talk to the locals in these regions like I have, go speak to the Mufti's of Islam (not Imams - they don't hold jurispudntial knowledge and cannot comment on these issues) go speak to the soldiers who fought from the USA and the UK as I have done - go see what these people are saying and you will never trust your News Networks again - of this I can guarantee...
Paranoid Pedant? er... dude - have you heard how you sound in your posts? you sound like a hypocritical moron for saying that!!! especially after you said the following...Scientificz wrote:OH NOES I MADE A MISTAKE ON TEH INTERNETZ IN FRONT OF SOME PARANOIOD PEDANT
... They didn't ban education or music LMFAO - this is what we are led to believe LMFAO, the propaganda and misrepresentation of the situation in Iraq/Afghanistan sickens me... Do you really expect me to believe that the civilisation which bought us Art/Mathematics/Medicine/Music/Education for Women etc hundreds of years ago is really that backward today - I know it isn't...Scientificz wrote:PS - why the fuck are you defending the same people who routinely murdered women in football stadiums as entertainment? the same people who banned education, music etc
As for the "routinely murdered women in football stadiums" - Dude - are you gonna hold the actions of a few bad apples to be reflective of the whole Muslim population of Afghanistan? Iran? Pakistan? what's your problem - you definitely don't break things down in a logical/scientific way at all - how can I take you seriously after that comment?
It aint logical or scientific... Sorry!
Jesus christ, you are dull.
I like your username, at least it's half right
X
There's no god in heaven, so get off your knees
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Trichome_Dense
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spidergawd
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that did 9/11-
Trichome_Dense
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Scientificz
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Trichome_Dense wrote:Haha - couldnt think of anything smart so you resort to abuse you silly man! Have a joint... and breathe... oh btw - You might wanna comb your hair and wash ya face... thats just an opinion btw - not being abusive LMFAO
you thick cunt lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Chuck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rstrzHXS ... re=related
There's no god in heaven, so get off your knees
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spidergawd
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Trichome_Dense
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Scientificz wrote:Trichome_Dense wrote:Haha - couldnt think of anything smart so you resort to abuse you silly man! Have a joint... and breathe... oh btw - You might wanna comb your hair and wash ya face... thats just an opinion btw - not being abusive LMFAO
you thick cunt lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Chuck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rstrzHXS ... re=related
Sorry - I didnt know you was a girl - you look like a MAN - and an ugly one at that! Dont get abusive coz its a 2 way st.
Callin someone a Cunt dont get you no brownie points on this forum - Nut destroying them intelligently does - As for you calling peeps allsorts, take a look at yourself - You used to be famous - Stand up comic on Keith Chegwins show (LOL) and now? Now you're still a nobody LMFAO
If you wanna get abusive - I'll give you my address - come find me and I'll show you what Burran shinss can do you muppet motherfucker haha
... as long as it aint a cheque 
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Scientificz
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Trichome_Dense
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Trichome_Dense
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Scientificz
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Trichome_Dense
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Scientificz
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