Cafe Batavia 1920

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DeLekkersteNUGS16
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Re: Cafe Batavia 1920

Post by DeLekkersteNUGS16 »

DjShaggy wrote: Tue 14th Jan 2020 04:42 pm Image
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Ghost
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Re: Cafe Batavia 1920

Post by Ghost »

DeLekkersteNUGS16 wrote: Mon 13th Jan 2020 10:00 pm Per the manager's own words, dabbing is no longer permitted, nor are ciggies. As it stands pure joints are still allowed. Though there's talks of Gemeente workers probing the air readings of smoking rooms for tobacco-content going forward; and subsequently fining establishments in violation of the ZERO tobacco ruling.

So all you Euro-trash baccy-laced joint smokers thinking you're oh-so "slick" will probably ruin a good thing for the rest of us soon enough... 🙄😏

HSB is still dab-friendly, as far as I know.
Well gutted to hear this news on the dab front here, but still glad we can still smoke pure down there. Its mad that they have employed people testing the air quality for tobacco-content :lol: must be a nightmare for the owners of such establishments. How does the testing of the air work, is it a certain level of tobacco in the air that they look for?
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DjShaggy
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Re: Cafe Batavia 1920

Post by DjShaggy »

Ghost wrote: Tue 14th Jan 2020 05:50 pm
DeLekkersteNUGS16 wrote: Mon 13th Jan 2020 10:00 pm Per the manager's own words, dabbing is no longer permitted, nor are ciggies. As it stands pure joints are still allowed. Though there's talks of Gemeente workers probing the air readings of smoking rooms for tobacco-content going forward; and subsequently fining establishments in violation of the ZERO tobacco ruling.

So all you Euro-trash baccy-laced joint smokers thinking you're oh-so "slick" will probably ruin a good thing for the rest of us soon enough... 🙄😏

HSB is still dab-friendly, as far as I know.
Well gutted to hear this news on the dab front here, but still glad we can still smoke pure down there. Its mad that they have employed people testing the air quality for tobacco-content :lol: must be a nightmare for the owners of such establishments. How does the testing of the air work, is it a certain level of tobacco in the air that they look for?
And what’s going to happen with coffeeshops? Like it or not (and I don’t like it) but Europeans mix tobacco with their weed...
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CopenhagenCouple
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Re: Cafe Batavia 1920

Post by CopenhagenCouple »

Everyone applauding this and similar restrictions, due to their own preferences against tobacco, dabbing, drinking alcohol while smoking etc., are, at best, naive and misguided, in addition to being quite inconsiderate! Sorry to be so blunt, but it is pretty simple really…

There are many, many places you can go and smoke a pure joint (heard of coffeeshops anyone?) and to some degree (still) a good variety in choice of places you can smoke pure and have a alcoholic drink.

The amount of places you can smoke a baccy containing spliff (legally or on the “down-low”) have now declined to zero and the places you can dab and have a drink are rapidly approaching that number. Keep in mind that not all groups consist of only smokers and it is nice to have a place where there’s something for everyone.

Why some people can’t the bigger picture, extrapolate from the fucking gazillion data-points they are presented with and reach the conclusion that this will all lead to a ban against public consumption is beyond us. In our opinion there’s no other end to this road and thinking otherwise is naive…

The fact that people only take their own situation and preferences into account and in some cases even applaud these moves, when they have plenty of other choices, is quite inconsiderate towards those who aren’t presented with other options…

It began with the closure of Cafe Coffeeshops and will end with the total ban of public consumption, we’ve said it before and we’ll keep saying it.

Sorry to be a bit harsh, but this is in our opinion an issue that does not deserve a sugar-coating!
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DeLekkersteNUGS16
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Re: Cafe Batavia 1920

Post by DeLekkersteNUGS16 »

Not sure if that's towards me. But it's people that can't follow a simple fucking rule ruining it, and are the "inconsiderate" ones. Coffeeshops have had the "pure" rule for ages and it's never been truly followed, so to say that any true pure only venues exist or have existed (in practice, not theory) is disingenuous and not at all representative of the current situation and/or previous status-quo. There's never been a true pure-only venue, Boerejongens tried it at one point and it was a massive flop, and eventually they gave up and turned a blind eye as elsewhere.

Luckily Amsterdam is more tolerant of open air consumption than just about any city on the planet, so step outside, spark up and enjoy, easy as my friends. Mind you this rule was designed to protect employees who have to constantly be exposed to said smoke fumes, so yeah real inconsiderate dick move that is, eh?!

Vaping, pure flower and dabbing should be allowed, for the rest spark your fag or twist up your spliff and fuck off outside like people have been doing around the world for decades now. Again, in AMS in public space even spliffs are tolerated and if the establishment chooses to allow in particular cannabis use on their terrace then you still have far more permissiveness than you would just about anywhere else in the world, so any titty aching garners zero sympathy from me, sorry not sorry!

For the record if I combust (a pure joint) I do so in front of Batavia, not downstairs. Same for my other watering hole, the one bearing the name of the Netherlands neighbor country. Because I hate that I have to smell like filthy tobacco stench for the rest of the day/till my clothes are washed if I go to a rookruimte or a coffeeshop in general (hence why I also rarely hangout in coffeeshops even for consumption), and Barcelona tends to have better extraction systems and because they don't tolerate street consumption I'm basically relegated to the social smoking spaces before that hollow argument gets tossed out....

That's my prickly pear, and bang on reality of the situation at hand explanation of FACTS (note I don't say opinion), carry on....

Edit: though I agree it could lead to more all-encompassing bans, which I don't want. But that's not me applauding or selfishly wanting that. That's the lack of pragmatic thinking on the part of legislators and is as whole other animal and point of discussion.
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DeLekkersteNUGS16
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Re: Cafe Batavia 1920

Post by DeLekkersteNUGS16 »

I think there should be a clearer division, places that register as private clubs associations, as you see in many locales the world over, where you buy in membership to smoke at given establishment/premise/social space, and usually manage to skirt legislation, e.g. these exist for tobacco in NYC and for tobacco, well hookah anyway (and maybe weed) in Seattle. But there should be options for all:

1.) Only tobacco clubs - cigarettes, cigars, hookahs

2.) Anything goes clubs (tobacco and all cannabis forms)

3.) Only weed clubs (actually pure, none of that substitute bullshit) all forms, pure, combustion allowed

4.) Only weed vape lounges, dabbing and vaping only. No combustion allowed.

Of course this is sadly but a pipe dream, but would be the most pragmatic and ideal solution without a doubt.

Lots of stoners don't like tobacco at all, and prefer not to be exposed to it, at all, so again spliffers can come across rather selfishly in their lowkey insistence on subjecting others to the noxious, stank ass, carcinogenic fumes.
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Re: Cafe Batavia 1920

Post by FODSmith »

I never mix herb and tobacco by choice. I hated tobacco when I never smoked it at all, and although nowadays I ruefully admit to smoking roll-ups, particularly in certain situations, I know it's a filthy habit and don't do it indoors, even at home. I hated smoky pubs when tobacco was allowed inside -- but good ventilation means they don't have to be that way. I'm glad people who want smoke-free environments can find them. But I hate the mentality behind preventing someone from opening a pub or café, even if they're the only person working there, where customers would be allowed to smoke tobacco, a damaging but legal product. Particularly in Amsterdam, where brown cafés are part of history, after all, and they didn't get that colour by chance.
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Re: Cafe Batavia 1920

Post by CopenhagenCouple »

DeLekkersteNUGS16 wrote: Tue 14th Jan 2020 08:24 pm Not sure if that's towards me.
It wasn’t. However…
DeLekkersteNUGS16 wrote: Tue 14th Jan 2020 08:24 pm Coffeeshops have had the "pure" rule for ages and it's never been truly followed, so to say that any true pure only venues exist or have existed (in practice, not theory) is disingenuous and not at all representative of the current situation
There was no such statement made. But if you want to go down that tangent (keep in mind, not part of original argument, so don’t confuse it as such):
DeLekkersteNUGS16 wrote: Tue 14th Jan 2020 08:24 pm There's never been a true pure-only venue, Boerejongens tried it at one point and it was a massive flop, and eventually they gave up and turned a blind eye as elsewhere.
Wonder if there’s a reason for that? IF there is such a big group of purists out there, that can’t stand places that look both ways, why don’t you team up a bit and produce enough of a market demand to keep a few places going that offers this alternative? Anyways, with the recent changes this should all work it self out, for those that want weed only places anyhows.

But that is still besides the point, and again not part of the original argument. The original argument is one we’ve been making for a very long time and there was no attempt made to misrepresent anything, so do not appreciate being called disingenuous for making it...
DeLekkersteNUGS16 wrote: Tue 14th Jan 2020 08:24 pm Luckily Amsterdam is more tolerant of open air consumption than just about any city on the planet, so step outside, spark up and enjoy, easy as my friends.
Yeah, We don’t go on vacay to Amsterdam to smoke in the street, can do that here in CPH more or less as easy. Yeah, yeah, it is “tolerated” in Amsterdam, but let’s see how tolerant the popo is when large flocks of stoners start hanging out and puffing fatties outside bars in crowded areas. Still, not why we travel to Amsterdam…
DeLekkersteNUGS16 wrote: Tue 14th Jan 2020 08:24 pm Mind you this rule was designed to protect employees who have to constantly be exposed to said smoke fumes, so yeah real inconsiderate dick move that is, eh?!
Pleeeeease, if there’s a dick move here it is twisting the argument that way. FOD beat us to it with respect to the freedom of choice for a business owner. Let’s add that no employees are forced to work in Amsterdam to our knowledge, in fact most places in question will have people lining up and even on waiting lists to apply for a job.

There are also mechanisms and solutions to significantly reduce the harm to employees, that will definitely reduce hazards in the working environment (when procedures are followed) to levels way below those a lot of people are faced with in their everyday jobs or e.g. the risks faced by passive smoking in a next door apartment. Under-pressure fish-tanks with proper ventilation would be ideal, but Batavia’s own model of no-service in the lounge was also a good idea that could be tweaked with ventilation.

No matter what, it is still a matter of free choice and the freedom of business owners, clients and employees to make theirs.

Original point still stands, there were a few places left in the world where you could enjoy a baccy spliff, they are now gone (that is a FACT as you like to put it, no matter how you try to twist the argument) and soon more freedoms will follow (that is speculation, but in our opinion very well founded).

We recognize the apology made in the chat and the edits made to the original post, so tried to keep this reply civil.
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RoMoney
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Re: Cafe Batavia 1920

Post by RoMoney »

I've never been a massive Batavia fan as it's too much like a regular boozer and I don't like spending time in boozers when I could be in a Coffeeshop. HSB due to it's more alternative vibe always appealed to me far more as a smoke friendly bar. That said, since joining ACD I have been able to appreciate the appeal of Batavia more even if I'm still not a convert and I'm sad that so many of you are loosing a favourite haunt.

CC makes an interesting point.....I'm pretty anti-tobacco......but I'm also very pro-choice so if someone is happy to work in a smokey workplace then it does change the dynamic and as mentioned such places will always have lots of applicants.
Last edited by RoMoney on Wed 15th Jan 2020 08:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DeLekkersteNUGS16
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Re: Cafe Batavia 1920

Post by DeLekkersteNUGS16 »

CopenhagenCouple wrote: Wed 15th Jan 2020 05:44 pm
DeLekkersteNUGS16 wrote: Tue 14th Jan 2020 08:24 pm Not sure if that's towards me.
It wasn’t. However…
DeLekkersteNUGS16 wrote: Tue 14th Jan 2020 08:24 pm Coffeeshops have had the "pure" rule for ages and it's never been truly followed, so to say that any true pure only venues exist or have existed (in practice, not theory) is disingenuous and not at all representative of the current situation
There was no such statement made. But if you want to go down that tangent (keep in mind, not part of original argument, so don’t confuse it as such):
DeLekkersteNUGS16 wrote: Tue 14th Jan 2020 08:24 pm There's never been a true pure-only venue, Boerejongens tried it at one point and it was a massive flop, and eventually they gave up and turned a blind eye as elsewhere.
Wonder if there’s a reason for that? IF there is such a big group of purists out there, that can’t stand places that look both ways, why don’t you team up a bit and produce enough of a market demand to keep a few places going that offers this alternative? Anyways, with the recent changes this should all work it self out, for those that want weed only places anyhows.

But that is still besides the point, and again not part of the original argument. The original argument is one we’ve been making for a very long time and there was no attempt made to misrepresent anything, so do not appreciate being called disingenuous for making it...
DeLekkersteNUGS16 wrote: Tue 14th Jan 2020 08:24 pm Luckily Amsterdam is more tolerant of open air consumption than just about any city on the planet, so step outside, spark up and enjoy, easy as my friends.
Yeah, We don’t go on vacay to Amsterdam to smoke in the street, can do that here in CPH more or less as easy. Yeah, yeah, it is “tolerated” in Amsterdam, but let’s see how tolerant the popo is when large flocks of stoners start hanging out and puffing fatties outside bars in crowded areas. Still, not why we travel to Amsterdam…
DeLekkersteNUGS16 wrote: Tue 14th Jan 2020 08:24 pm Mind you this rule was designed to protect employees who have to constantly be exposed to said smoke fumes, so yeah real inconsiderate dick move that is, eh?!
Pleeeeease, if there’s a dick move here it is twisting the argument that way. FOD beat us to it with respect to the freedom of choice for a business owner. Let’s add that no employees are forced to work in Amsterdam to our knowledge, in fact most places in question will have people lining up and even on waiting lists to apply for a job.

There are also mechanisms and solutions to significantly reduce the harm to employees, that will definitely reduce hazards in the working environment (when procedures are followed) to levels way below those a lot of people are faced with in their everyday jobs or e.g. the risks faced by passive smoking in a next door apartment. Under-pressure fish-tanks with proper ventilation would be ideal, but Batavia’s own model of no-service in the lounge was also a good idea that could be tweaked with ventilation.

No matter what, it is still a matter of free choice and the freedom of business owners, clients and employees to make theirs.

Original point still stands, there were a few places left in the world where you could enjoy a baccy spliff, they are now gone (that is a FACT as you like to put it, no matter how you try to twist the argument) and soon more freedoms will follow (that is speculation, but in our opinion very well founded).

We recognize the apology made in the chat and the edits made to the original post, so tried to keep this reply civil.
So my reply yesterday was dickheaded in wording and not accurate in conveyance and my true feelings on the matte.

First and foremost, sorry I misread the intended target-audience. Perhaps, the "unapologetic" and "non-sugar coated" parts added some perceived harshness that I now believe was not intended, whether towards myself, or on the whole.

On the phone now, will try to better elaborate a clear, civil and pragmatic response when I'm in front of a computer again.

Apologies for being a moody twat, much love to both of you! 💚💚💚
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Ghost
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Re: Cafe Batavia 1920

Post by Ghost »

CopenhagenCouple wrote: Tue 14th Jan 2020 07:22 pm Everyone applauding this and similar restrictions, due to their own preferences against tobacco, dabbing, drinking alcohol while smoking etc., are, at best, naive and misguided, in addition to being quite inconsiderate! Sorry to be so blunt, but it is pretty simple really…

The amount of places you can smoke a baccy containing spliff (legally or on the “down-low”) have now declined to zero and the places you can dab and have a drink are rapidly approaching that number. Keep in mind that not all groups consist of only smokers and it is nice to have a place where there’s something for everyone.

Why some people can’t the bigger picture, extrapolate from the fucking gazillion data-points they are presented with and reach the conclusion that this will all lead to a ban against public consumption is beyond us. In our opinion there’s no other end to this road and thinking otherwise is naive…
This is true and it is a shame that this is happening, although do we think it will be properly enforced and acted upon?. Like I said above I cant believe that they have employed people to test for tobacco smoke, its madness!!. Myself I hope not as i also have friends that visit Amsterdam with me that smoke baccy spliffs and like to have a few drinks also, so this will have an impact on us all, as well as anyone else who lives in or is visiting Dam in the same situation. Like you say this could lead to a full on ban on public consumption and surely that would be the end of the scene over there. I don't see why the business owners cant be given a choice on adding bigger extraction systems and making adjustments to their premises to remove said smoke from the smoking room and every customer and worker has a choice of entering/working in these premises or not.
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Not_the_monk
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Re: Cafe Batavia 1920

Post by Not_the_monk »

So I guess Soundgarden's terrace may well be the go-to destination for tobacco-joint smoking visitors going forward? That better not change (nobody tell me it already has please!)
DC
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Re: Cafe Batavia 1920

Post by DC »

"If a frog is put suddenly into boiling water, it will jump out, but if the frog is put in tepid water which is then brought to a boil slowly, it will not perceive the danger and will be cooked to death." Or, if you want to go a bit more ott "First they came....". As for the "down low", people are generally to stupid, too lazy and/or too selfish to be able to handle that, especially when they're stoned. You don't need to take air readings for tobacco when you have muppets rolling it into their joints in open view, either thinking they're being all cloak 'n' dagger about it...or just not giving a shit. That's why t'Nes took fines, "Oh it's ok, the staff can't see me" No, but the city council worker sitting on the table next to you can. Give the council an inch and they'll take their mile, so where it starts is never where it ends and that might just be where you think you're safe. Tobacco today, pure tomorrow, be careful with what you're "OK" with.
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Comus
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Re: Cafe Batavia 1920

Post by Comus »

DjShaggy wrote: Tue 14th Jan 2020 06:22 pm Like it or not (and I don’t like it) but Europeans mix tobacco with their weed...
if the yankie doodle dandies mixed tobacco with their ganja then there would be no states where ganja consumption is legal ... medically or recreationally

fuck tobacco .... it's shit pushed onto weak minded folks by multi-national multi billionaire scum suckers who don't give a fuck

but saying that, if the weak minded want to harm themselves then they should be free to do so, as long as they aren't harming those in close proximity

and before anybody starts to fell agreived by what i have posted then i'll just point out i used to be one of the weak minded too
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Tokeing tom
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Re: Cafe Batavia 1920

Post by Tokeing tom »

Sorry to veer off subject but I had breakfast in batvia the other morning, sat at the big window downstairs and had a nice spliff afterwards... It was nice 😇
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