http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005510311,00.html
personally I think this is BS I think its all to do with the British government trying to justify reclassifying dope back to a class B, I'll ask around when I'm there at christmas.
Oh dear!!
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Sir Ian of Tokesville
- Posts: 285
- Joined: Fri 30th Sep 2005 12:45 pm
I wonder ( for argument sake it became law) what the socio-economic impact on Amsterdam tourism would result as a consequence. Hotel/restuarant/coffeeshop/closures just the tip of a large iceberg Imo.
Wouldn't put me off personally....I remember when as a kid, we used to get older boys to buy us beer and vodka while we were not old enough. Surely the same would ensue in Holland were it to happen (and I seriously doubt it could be drafted as law). The article you refer to is a mish-mashed piece of mixed UK/Dutch non-news. It really says nothing of any substance and is factually incorrect and pure scaremongering. I have never heard of anyone committing crime to support a cannabis habit in either country. Were the change in law to be applied, it would lead in my view, to an explosion of homegrowing and use of harder drugs in all of the countries that border Holland. If the authorities in Holland want to really f**k off the electorate it could hardly have picked a better place to start.
What is needed is a Dutch viewpoint to put this subject matter into perpective. Any takers ?
Wouldn't put me off personally....I remember when as a kid, we used to get older boys to buy us beer and vodka while we were not old enough. Surely the same would ensue in Holland were it to happen (and I seriously doubt it could be drafted as law). The article you refer to is a mish-mashed piece of mixed UK/Dutch non-news. It really says nothing of any substance and is factually incorrect and pure scaremongering. I have never heard of anyone committing crime to support a cannabis habit in either country. Were the change in law to be applied, it would lead in my view, to an explosion of homegrowing and use of harder drugs in all of the countries that border Holland. If the authorities in Holland want to really f**k off the electorate it could hardly have picked a better place to start.
What is needed is a Dutch viewpoint to put this subject matter into perpective. Any takers ?
That's a load of nonsense. They simply can't make a law to block entry to coffeeshops to any one nationality. If you're legally allowed to be in the Netherlands you can legally do whatever anyone else, Dutch or otherwise, can do legally.
Someone had an idea a while back to make coffeeshops into clubs, where only members could buy weed, and only Dutch residents could be members but this was quickly found to be legally unworkable.
It's funny that they chose a picture of Smokey on Rembrandtplein to illustrate the story. That shop got into trouble recently for refusing admission to Dutch people. They said the locals didn't spend enough money.
Someone had an idea a while back to make coffeeshops into clubs, where only members could buy weed, and only Dutch residents could be members but this was quickly found to be legally unworkable.
It's funny that they chose a picture of Smokey on Rembrandtplein to illustrate the story. That shop got into trouble recently for refusing admission to Dutch people. They said the locals didn't spend enough money.
Ever since I first visited Amsterdam in the 1980s, I have heard rumours that the coffeeshops were all about to close.
This story has been around for a while. Local governments in the border regions have suggested forcing coffeeshops to insist customers show Dutch ID. If they did it then the trade would simply move outside the coffeeshops, not helping anyone. A better solution would be licensing coffeeshops in Germany and Belgium.
Since cannabis was re-classified from B to C in the UK, national consumption has decreased.
This story has been around for a while. Local governments in the border regions have suggested forcing coffeeshops to insist customers show Dutch ID. If they did it then the trade would simply move outside the coffeeshops, not helping anyone. A better solution would be licensing coffeeshops in Germany and Belgium.
Since cannabis was re-classified from B to C in the UK, national consumption has decreased.
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Sir Ian of Tokesville
- Posts: 285
- Joined: Fri 30th Sep 2005 12:45 pm
Errm....theres an article on Drugwarschronicle..
Dutch Government Seeks Ban on Foreigners in Coffee Shops 10/31/03
The conservative coalition led by the Christian Democrats that currently governs the Netherlands has floated a proposal to restrict access to the country's famous cannabis coffee shops to Dutch nationals. The government has said it is responding to foreign pressure, notably from Germany, whose hash-hungry citizens flood across the border by the thousands each day to score, but the attack on the coffee shops fits precisely with the coalition's own anti-drug agenda.
The Netherlands effectively decriminalized marijuana possession in 1976, and in the years since, the country's coffee houses have been tolerated as a technically illegal but socially acceptable means of allowing for the consumption and sale of cannabis. Although down from a peak of more than 1,200 coffee houses a few years ago, more than 800 are currently open, generating more than $3 billion in gross sales and nearly $340 million in tax revenues each year. The coffee shops have generated visible foreign "drug tourism" for at least 20 years as repressed Americans, Germans, and Britons, among others, seek to sample what they view as the sweet life.
First notice of the proposed move came last week, when the German newspaper Deutsche Welle reported on a meeting between German Interior Minister Otto Schily and Dutch Justice Minister Piet Hein Donner to discuss cooperation in efforts to fight the international drug trade. According to Deutsche Welle, Germany wanted the Dutch to completely shut down the coffee shops, and Donner countered with an offer to bar foreigners from using them. Under Donner's plan, people would need a pass card or membership to enter the shops, and such cards would be limited to Dutch residents.
But if initial reactions are any guide, Donner and the Christian Democrats are in for a battle. The coffee shops certainly aren't going along quietly. "It's totally ridiculous. The minister is stupid. If this system comes in, all the tourists will buy from criminals in the street," Arjan Roskam, of the Union of Cannabis Retailers, told the Expatica news service. The plan is "worthless," he added.
Nol van Shaik, owner of the Willie Wortels coffee shops, was less diplomatic. "Donner must have been on some strange dope when he thought this all up," von Shaik fumed in an e-mail bemoaning the move. "It is too insane to have to respond to this brainwave of a right-wing Catholic politician." The plan would be unworkable, van Shaik wrote, not least of all because people like him would actively work to sabotage it. "If Donner's scheme is accepted and executed, we will always have a host available, wearing a t-shirt with the following print: I buy cannabis for foreigners!"
Venlo, a town of 90,000 along the German border that is home to five official coffee shops, numerous unsanctioned ones, as well as independent hard drug dealers, is ground zero in the drug tourism debate. Within 30 miles of some five million Germans, Venlo alone sees some 4,000 German cannabis buyers each day. While the town has complained of unruliness around the drug trade, the Venlo Council has gone on record as opposing the ban on foreigners, agreeing with the coffee shop union that it would spark an explosive increase in illegal drug dealing.
The Association of Dutch Municipalities has been cautious, the British newspaper the Guardian reported. The association will await definite plans before taking a stand, it said.
The proposal is by no means a done deal. "The proposal is being debated these days and the outcome is unclear yet," said Dutch psychiatrist and drug researcher Frederick Polak of the Netherlands Drug Policy Foundation. It is uncertain that even the parties that make up the coalition with the Christian Democrats will go along, he told DRCNet. "The opposition in parliament comes from not only the Green Party and the progressive Liberals, but also from the conservative Liberals. It is unclear yet what the Social Democrats, the second largest party, will do."
Van Shaik, for his part, had advice for all involved in the scheme. "Minister Donner should have told off the Germans, the French and even the UN, if he is a true representative of his country, a country with the best and only drug policy in the world -- one can hardly call prohibition a policy. If it is, it is a dictatorial policy," the coffee shop baron fulminated. "Minister Donner should have told the German Justice Minister to keep his cannabis consumers in his own country, by making cannabis available in registered outlets, because cannabis consumption in Germany is higher than in his country, the Netherlands, where cannabis is available through coffee shops. Minister Donner should tell the UN, the US, and France to try and do something about the growing consumption of cannabis in their countries, without it being available, except from the dangerous black market, where all drugs are sold by the same suppliers, without any control on quality and prices," van Shaik recommended.
"Minister Donner will do none of this -- he just sucks up to the big countries, with their big drug problems, and he will just try to close as many coffee shops as he possibly can, following the line of his political party, blind as a mule, deaf as a mole, and as dumb as an ass," van Shaik predicted.
And, of course, eliminating the coffee shops is in line with Christian Democrat policies. Prime Minister Balkenende vowed to do as much before he was elected, and his government has given sign after sign it wants to crack down on drugs. Interior Minister Johan Remkes not long ago tried to ban Dutch police from frequenting coffee shops, See:- http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/302/dutchcops.shtml , the government has been busy building "emergency" jail cells for drug smugglers pouring into Schipol Airport, and Minister Donner is now threatening to withdraw the landing rights of any airline found to be regularly carrying drug mules from the Caribbean. And now he wants to keep the foreigners out of the coffee shops. According to the Guardian, the Dutch government will introduce a new general drug policy proposal in December. Stay tuned.
Heavy shit.....what it means is hard to tell at this point, but its more than a rumour in a tabloid.
Dutch Government Seeks Ban on Foreigners in Coffee Shops 10/31/03
The conservative coalition led by the Christian Democrats that currently governs the Netherlands has floated a proposal to restrict access to the country's famous cannabis coffee shops to Dutch nationals. The government has said it is responding to foreign pressure, notably from Germany, whose hash-hungry citizens flood across the border by the thousands each day to score, but the attack on the coffee shops fits precisely with the coalition's own anti-drug agenda.
The Netherlands effectively decriminalized marijuana possession in 1976, and in the years since, the country's coffee houses have been tolerated as a technically illegal but socially acceptable means of allowing for the consumption and sale of cannabis. Although down from a peak of more than 1,200 coffee houses a few years ago, more than 800 are currently open, generating more than $3 billion in gross sales and nearly $340 million in tax revenues each year. The coffee shops have generated visible foreign "drug tourism" for at least 20 years as repressed Americans, Germans, and Britons, among others, seek to sample what they view as the sweet life.
First notice of the proposed move came last week, when the German newspaper Deutsche Welle reported on a meeting between German Interior Minister Otto Schily and Dutch Justice Minister Piet Hein Donner to discuss cooperation in efforts to fight the international drug trade. According to Deutsche Welle, Germany wanted the Dutch to completely shut down the coffee shops, and Donner countered with an offer to bar foreigners from using them. Under Donner's plan, people would need a pass card or membership to enter the shops, and such cards would be limited to Dutch residents.
But if initial reactions are any guide, Donner and the Christian Democrats are in for a battle. The coffee shops certainly aren't going along quietly. "It's totally ridiculous. The minister is stupid. If this system comes in, all the tourists will buy from criminals in the street," Arjan Roskam, of the Union of Cannabis Retailers, told the Expatica news service. The plan is "worthless," he added.
Nol van Shaik, owner of the Willie Wortels coffee shops, was less diplomatic. "Donner must have been on some strange dope when he thought this all up," von Shaik fumed in an e-mail bemoaning the move. "It is too insane to have to respond to this brainwave of a right-wing Catholic politician." The plan would be unworkable, van Shaik wrote, not least of all because people like him would actively work to sabotage it. "If Donner's scheme is accepted and executed, we will always have a host available, wearing a t-shirt with the following print: I buy cannabis for foreigners!"
Venlo, a town of 90,000 along the German border that is home to five official coffee shops, numerous unsanctioned ones, as well as independent hard drug dealers, is ground zero in the drug tourism debate. Within 30 miles of some five million Germans, Venlo alone sees some 4,000 German cannabis buyers each day. While the town has complained of unruliness around the drug trade, the Venlo Council has gone on record as opposing the ban on foreigners, agreeing with the coffee shop union that it would spark an explosive increase in illegal drug dealing.
The Association of Dutch Municipalities has been cautious, the British newspaper the Guardian reported. The association will await definite plans before taking a stand, it said.
The proposal is by no means a done deal. "The proposal is being debated these days and the outcome is unclear yet," said Dutch psychiatrist and drug researcher Frederick Polak of the Netherlands Drug Policy Foundation. It is uncertain that even the parties that make up the coalition with the Christian Democrats will go along, he told DRCNet. "The opposition in parliament comes from not only the Green Party and the progressive Liberals, but also from the conservative Liberals. It is unclear yet what the Social Democrats, the second largest party, will do."
Van Shaik, for his part, had advice for all involved in the scheme. "Minister Donner should have told off the Germans, the French and even the UN, if he is a true representative of his country, a country with the best and only drug policy in the world -- one can hardly call prohibition a policy. If it is, it is a dictatorial policy," the coffee shop baron fulminated. "Minister Donner should have told the German Justice Minister to keep his cannabis consumers in his own country, by making cannabis available in registered outlets, because cannabis consumption in Germany is higher than in his country, the Netherlands, where cannabis is available through coffee shops. Minister Donner should tell the UN, the US, and France to try and do something about the growing consumption of cannabis in their countries, without it being available, except from the dangerous black market, where all drugs are sold by the same suppliers, without any control on quality and prices," van Shaik recommended.
"Minister Donner will do none of this -- he just sucks up to the big countries, with their big drug problems, and he will just try to close as many coffee shops as he possibly can, following the line of his political party, blind as a mule, deaf as a mole, and as dumb as an ass," van Shaik predicted.
And, of course, eliminating the coffee shops is in line with Christian Democrat policies. Prime Minister Balkenende vowed to do as much before he was elected, and his government has given sign after sign it wants to crack down on drugs. Interior Minister Johan Remkes not long ago tried to ban Dutch police from frequenting coffee shops, See:- http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/302/dutchcops.shtml , the government has been busy building "emergency" jail cells for drug smugglers pouring into Schipol Airport, and Minister Donner is now threatening to withdraw the landing rights of any airline found to be regularly carrying drug mules from the Caribbean. And now he wants to keep the foreigners out of the coffee shops. According to the Guardian, the Dutch government will introduce a new general drug policy proposal in December. Stay tuned.
Heavy shit.....what it means is hard to tell at this point, but its more than a rumour in a tabloid.
in this day and age $$$$ is the only thing that matters and its the only thing that has the power to change laws. Having said that, i think there is no way the govt ( of any nation really) is gonna be stupid enough to give up and easy $340 MILLION. And that is just the taxes from the shops, when you factor in the taxes from airplanes, hotels, restaraunts, bars, and all the other touristy crap that figure probably soars close to $1 BILLION.....that is way too much money for a country to simply give up because its neighbors aren't happy.generating more than $3 billion in gross sales and nearly $340 million in tax revenues each year.
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Sir Ian of Tokesville
- Posts: 285
- Joined: Fri 30th Sep 2005 12:45 pm
In my view there would be plenty of people, that would do it for free, if for no other reason than to make a political point and other because they are just downright friendly types.sonicblue wrote:The plan to ban is not workable. I also can see locals going into shops to buy smoke for tourist - for a fee of course.
Last edited by Sir Ian of Tokesville on Fri 29th Aug 2008 06:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Your point well taken.Sir Ian of Tokesville wrote:In my view there would be plenty of people, that would do it for free, if for no other reason than to make a political point and other because they are just downright friendly types.sonicblue wrote:The plan to ban is not workable. I also can see locals going into shops to buy smoke for tourist - for a fee of course.
In fact, if I was a local I would without hesitation aquire smoke for an adult upon request for no fee.
The whole this group of adults can and this group cannot reminds me of America 50 years ago with "whites only" signs posted in shops.
It's just wrong and I think the Dutch people know better than their own government about this.
My thoughts are free.
oh, dear???
I've heard this crap from CDA for so many years; last time they took it to the EU Parliament was 2003. I shit bricks back then, but a D66 EP reassured me...
...this move must be ratified by the Dutch Parliament. And every party save CDA is for "full" legalization of cannabis. When the proposal was last floated in 2003, it was strongly rejected by the Tweede Kamer...
...but you know the story. The key for all of us is to get these motherfuckers OUT OF POWER!!! No one likes them, I hear no-confidence motions against Balkenende and Donner every couple of months, it's like they (like Bush) want to rule by decree, against the will of the people...
...and of what value is this being tabled to the EU Parliament, when Dutch voters rejected the Constitution? I say we fight, then in 2007 we just kick them out.
....overseas, Bush in my country less and less popular every day. Politicians indicted, severe criticism of policies, and yes, Denver Colorado voted for "legalization" of pot. The makings of a great revolution are starting to suggest even here. There's no reason we should let the Dutch Parliament sleepwalk into accepting this bogus and bullshit proposal--and that's what it is folks, a proposal.
Class C went thru a pilot program. It, too, had to be passed by Parliament. Belgium went legal. No way, folks, no way.
--qahouaji
...this move must be ratified by the Dutch Parliament. And every party save CDA is for "full" legalization of cannabis. When the proposal was last floated in 2003, it was strongly rejected by the Tweede Kamer...
...but you know the story. The key for all of us is to get these motherfuckers OUT OF POWER!!! No one likes them, I hear no-confidence motions against Balkenende and Donner every couple of months, it's like they (like Bush) want to rule by decree, against the will of the people...
...and of what value is this being tabled to the EU Parliament, when Dutch voters rejected the Constitution? I say we fight, then in 2007 we just kick them out.
....overseas, Bush in my country less and less popular every day. Politicians indicted, severe criticism of policies, and yes, Denver Colorado voted for "legalization" of pot. The makings of a great revolution are starting to suggest even here. There's no reason we should let the Dutch Parliament sleepwalk into accepting this bogus and bullshit proposal--and that's what it is folks, a proposal.
Class C went thru a pilot program. It, too, had to be passed by Parliament. Belgium went legal. No way, folks, no way.
--qahouaji
oh, dear????
Hello Everyone--
I hope while you sleep if you are, the webs of karma are pulling for you instead of against you, what with all the crazy turns of noisy rot that's on the TV these days...
...okay. I read the "Sun Magazine" article, and I've read the previous "tourist ban" and "high potency" proposals floored to the EP. It's cleverly packaged and its definitely designed to put a scare into us "druggies". They are real bastards, this CDA, trying to stamp out something that has never caused any real problems in Netherlands society as far as I can tell...
It's a cleverly packaged rehash of everything I've been reading from Donner and Co for the past three years. The "ifs" are very important because they are "ifs". The "pilot program" "could" be implemented across the country. (Again, "pilot programs" often take roughly a year to really gain results, so this is really an election issue) Short of decree--and in Dutch politics, even with the France riots, there's no basis for such a decree--after the program and if it is "successful" in discouraging drugs tourism--this goes to Parliament. The Dutch Ministry of Justice has no other option mostly because the Dutch people rejected the EU Constitution. They also have no option because Holland has, thanks to Amsterdam Mayor Job Cohen, stayed the tide of terrorist divisiveness that France hasn't. There always has been a racially tolerant sense--not real strong, but definitely strong enough and probably better than in other Western countries--so the sense that drugs like cannabis sponsor terrorists isn't a strong concept there. Therefore, "state of emergency" concepts, even when it comes to drugs, won't work.
Also, read the article on hempcity.net posted by "Virgil." It's a Radio Netherlands dispatch explaining that the majority voice in the Dutch Parliament wishes to legalize cannabis cultivation (currently only four plants are "tolerated" by the government) More important is this: the dispatch explains that the "liberal-conservative" VVD party, a coalition member with CDA, includes a constituency of which 80 percent are in support of legalization. It also explains that VVD will begin campaigning for the national elections starting in 2006. This suggests that for one thing, 2006 will not be an "easy" win for CDA with respect to cannabis. If CDA puts its foot down, they will probably be out the door. Also if they put their foot down, it will incite and excite lots of liberal opposition that would be dangerous to CDA leadership.
Another big, big, big factor that some of you have got right on the money is exactly that--money. Meaning, the Dutch economy isn't doing well at all. A tourist ban would shelve roughly 1-2% of Dutch GDP; that's a shock that a lot of people won't be able to afford and will make people much more angry with the current leadership. Withdrawing your cannabis tourism, your hotel patronage, your euros at bars and nightclubs and bus tours and novelty shops, will send a huge shock through the economy. Okay, don't take it for granted, because the Dutch have always been savvy business people. But banning tourists would probably delete from memory one of the sure-fire draws of Holland. Let's face it, Bollywood likes tulips and flowers, but that's not big bucks.
The nightmare scenario is this: a tourist ban would not only send tens of thousands of tourists onto the streets and pour a vein of pure smack into the street trade, but would also exacerbate street violence. Holland has always been proud of its peacefulness, the fact that the lay citizen can take his family out onto the streets even at night. Donner's "tourist ban" wouldn't stop there, it would mean the legislated end of coffee shops, and he knows it. Into that mess would develop a dark, authoritarian state that would feel like the Soviet Union, with lots of mean cops and even scarier criminals and few freedoms. The Dutch value freedom; it's in their history, and Donner knows it.
Finally, the concept is just pure bullshit. Picture a Melkweg without DJ's that could warmly admonish the partygoers to "limit their smoking". Picture that sweet smile of the shopkeeper when he tends his flowers outside being wiped off his face, because he knows that the Netherlands is no longer "free." Americans cried and wondered at the world after 9-11, the effect would really be the same there. Also, it's not a legitimate concept for many reasons. The first is that European nations are LIBERALIZING their cannabis laws. Belgium adopted the "decriminalisation" of 3 grams or 1 plant; in Germany, Berlin did the same for up to 15 grams. Prague has always had liberal marijuana laws.
Also, it's so bogus it buggers the imagination. Let's see. Cannabis cultivation is a Europe-wide "problem," not a Holland-wide problem, and growing is skyrocketing in countries like Britain, France, Germany, Switzerland, Spain. Shuttering the coffee shops would do nothing to stop the cannabis trade, it would only put it more strongly in the hands of organised crime. Donner should know this.
I admit that it's a clever package. I also admit that, in any country, politicians given enough pressure can be "bought" or bargained. But in Holland I doubt it: the liberal parties in Holland know that the cannabis issue is a money issue, it could get them elected over the conservatives in 2007. Yes, this one's important to me; I feel that Holland represents an oasis of freedom that Bush and his ancillaries want to destroy. Yes, shuttering the coffee shops would amount to a huge victory for Bush, would see authority triumph over individual freedom. No, I don't think it will happen, and I pray it won't, because I've always loved to, as it were, "take the walk in the snow". Oh, lastly: this move is an illegal move. The Ministry of Justice is simply wrong: EU citizens, at least, are supposed to have the same rights in any member state. They already have the almost exclusive right to live and work in any member state. It doesn't work to tell a German or a Briton that he can't do what only the Dutch are allowed to do. (Me being an American, I can only pray this won't happen).
As for the Britons "robbing" people, I think that's only overblown talking. That's been said of the heroin addicts, and they have a free distribution program. Wish I could be with you all at the Cup, but I may be headed that way soon.
To take that walk in the snow. And to enjoy my Holland.
Peace, and Tea with your Weed!
Qahouaji
I hope while you sleep if you are, the webs of karma are pulling for you instead of against you, what with all the crazy turns of noisy rot that's on the TV these days...
...okay. I read the "Sun Magazine" article, and I've read the previous "tourist ban" and "high potency" proposals floored to the EP. It's cleverly packaged and its definitely designed to put a scare into us "druggies". They are real bastards, this CDA, trying to stamp out something that has never caused any real problems in Netherlands society as far as I can tell...
It's a cleverly packaged rehash of everything I've been reading from Donner and Co for the past three years. The "ifs" are very important because they are "ifs". The "pilot program" "could" be implemented across the country. (Again, "pilot programs" often take roughly a year to really gain results, so this is really an election issue) Short of decree--and in Dutch politics, even with the France riots, there's no basis for such a decree--after the program and if it is "successful" in discouraging drugs tourism--this goes to Parliament. The Dutch Ministry of Justice has no other option mostly because the Dutch people rejected the EU Constitution. They also have no option because Holland has, thanks to Amsterdam Mayor Job Cohen, stayed the tide of terrorist divisiveness that France hasn't. There always has been a racially tolerant sense--not real strong, but definitely strong enough and probably better than in other Western countries--so the sense that drugs like cannabis sponsor terrorists isn't a strong concept there. Therefore, "state of emergency" concepts, even when it comes to drugs, won't work.
Also, read the article on hempcity.net posted by "Virgil." It's a Radio Netherlands dispatch explaining that the majority voice in the Dutch Parliament wishes to legalize cannabis cultivation (currently only four plants are "tolerated" by the government) More important is this: the dispatch explains that the "liberal-conservative" VVD party, a coalition member with CDA, includes a constituency of which 80 percent are in support of legalization. It also explains that VVD will begin campaigning for the national elections starting in 2006. This suggests that for one thing, 2006 will not be an "easy" win for CDA with respect to cannabis. If CDA puts its foot down, they will probably be out the door. Also if they put their foot down, it will incite and excite lots of liberal opposition that would be dangerous to CDA leadership.
Another big, big, big factor that some of you have got right on the money is exactly that--money. Meaning, the Dutch economy isn't doing well at all. A tourist ban would shelve roughly 1-2% of Dutch GDP; that's a shock that a lot of people won't be able to afford and will make people much more angry with the current leadership. Withdrawing your cannabis tourism, your hotel patronage, your euros at bars and nightclubs and bus tours and novelty shops, will send a huge shock through the economy. Okay, don't take it for granted, because the Dutch have always been savvy business people. But banning tourists would probably delete from memory one of the sure-fire draws of Holland. Let's face it, Bollywood likes tulips and flowers, but that's not big bucks.
The nightmare scenario is this: a tourist ban would not only send tens of thousands of tourists onto the streets and pour a vein of pure smack into the street trade, but would also exacerbate street violence. Holland has always been proud of its peacefulness, the fact that the lay citizen can take his family out onto the streets even at night. Donner's "tourist ban" wouldn't stop there, it would mean the legislated end of coffee shops, and he knows it. Into that mess would develop a dark, authoritarian state that would feel like the Soviet Union, with lots of mean cops and even scarier criminals and few freedoms. The Dutch value freedom; it's in their history, and Donner knows it.
Finally, the concept is just pure bullshit. Picture a Melkweg without DJ's that could warmly admonish the partygoers to "limit their smoking". Picture that sweet smile of the shopkeeper when he tends his flowers outside being wiped off his face, because he knows that the Netherlands is no longer "free." Americans cried and wondered at the world after 9-11, the effect would really be the same there. Also, it's not a legitimate concept for many reasons. The first is that European nations are LIBERALIZING their cannabis laws. Belgium adopted the "decriminalisation" of 3 grams or 1 plant; in Germany, Berlin did the same for up to 15 grams. Prague has always had liberal marijuana laws.
Also, it's so bogus it buggers the imagination. Let's see. Cannabis cultivation is a Europe-wide "problem," not a Holland-wide problem, and growing is skyrocketing in countries like Britain, France, Germany, Switzerland, Spain. Shuttering the coffee shops would do nothing to stop the cannabis trade, it would only put it more strongly in the hands of organised crime. Donner should know this.
I admit that it's a clever package. I also admit that, in any country, politicians given enough pressure can be "bought" or bargained. But in Holland I doubt it: the liberal parties in Holland know that the cannabis issue is a money issue, it could get them elected over the conservatives in 2007. Yes, this one's important to me; I feel that Holland represents an oasis of freedom that Bush and his ancillaries want to destroy. Yes, shuttering the coffee shops would amount to a huge victory for Bush, would see authority triumph over individual freedom. No, I don't think it will happen, and I pray it won't, because I've always loved to, as it were, "take the walk in the snow". Oh, lastly: this move is an illegal move. The Ministry of Justice is simply wrong: EU citizens, at least, are supposed to have the same rights in any member state. They already have the almost exclusive right to live and work in any member state. It doesn't work to tell a German or a Briton that he can't do what only the Dutch are allowed to do. (Me being an American, I can only pray this won't happen).
As for the Britons "robbing" people, I think that's only overblown talking. That's been said of the heroin addicts, and they have a free distribution program. Wish I could be with you all at the Cup, but I may be headed that way soon.
To take that walk in the snow. And to enjoy my Holland.
Peace, and Tea with your Weed!
Qahouaji
EU & UN informed of Plans
This is the latest info given in the Bulletin of the International Association for Cannabis as Medicine (IACM) http://www.cannabis-med.org:
The Netherlands: Government wants to stop the medical cannabis program and to restrict the sale of cannabis in coffee shops to the Dutch.
The conservative government intends to get rid of the image of a "drug paradise". From January 2006 on only citizens of the Netherlands will have access to coffee shops. It is intended to prohibit the sale of cannabis in coffee shops to foreigners.
According to the Austrian newspaper "Der Standard" the Dutch embassy in Austria informed the Austrian government, which will take over the presidency of the European Union in January 2006, and representatives of the United Nations about these plans.
Furthermore, the Dutch government considers to schedule cannabis as a hard drug if an ongoing investigation comes to the conclusion that the increase in THC concentration of cannabis during the past years is responsible for the increasing number of personality disorders in cannabis users, said Ton Cramer of the Health Ministry.
The Netherlands: Government wants to stop the medical cannabis program and to restrict the sale of cannabis in coffee shops to the Dutch.
The conservative government intends to get rid of the image of a "drug paradise". From January 2006 on only citizens of the Netherlands will have access to coffee shops. It is intended to prohibit the sale of cannabis in coffee shops to foreigners.
According to the Austrian newspaper "Der Standard" the Dutch embassy in Austria informed the Austrian government, which will take over the presidency of the European Union in January 2006, and representatives of the United Nations about these plans.
Furthermore, the Dutch government considers to schedule cannabis as a hard drug if an ongoing investigation comes to the conclusion that the increase in THC concentration of cannabis during the past years is responsible for the increasing number of personality disorders in cannabis users, said Ton Cramer of the Health Ministry.
Following qahouaji's suggestion I found this post on uk420.com: http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?s ... richt&st=0, which concludes:
The Dutch Justice Ministry has told (METRO) "this is a pilot scheme, limiting sales only to Dutch natives, will begin in Maastricht in January and if successful could be spread throughout the country. They are using Maastricht first because of concerns about Belgians and Germans crossing the nearby border to buy cannabis, a 'drugs tourism' they are under pressure to stop. The scheme would be operated by asking for buyers' passports or proof of Dutch citizenship, or having people register in advance for permission to buy cannabis."
I know it's the old Maastricht story, but now it's the new Maastricht story and, according to the available info, it looks like it's gonna happen like it says in the paragraph above.
The Dutch Justice Ministry has told (METRO) "this is a pilot scheme, limiting sales only to Dutch natives, will begin in Maastricht in January and if successful could be spread throughout the country. They are using Maastricht first because of concerns about Belgians and Germans crossing the nearby border to buy cannabis, a 'drugs tourism' they are under pressure to stop. The scheme would be operated by asking for buyers' passports or proof of Dutch citizenship, or having people register in advance for permission to buy cannabis."
I know it's the old Maastricht story, but now it's the new Maastricht story and, according to the available info, it looks like it's gonna happen like it says in the paragraph above.
After all, it's only a weed that turns to a flower in your mind.